[INTRO]

Scott Scully: Let’s kick it off. What’s up, Grow Nation? Welcome back. Welcome back to the Grow Show.
Group: Let’s grow.
Scott Scully: Welcome back to the Grow Show. How are we doing today?

Eric Watkins: Excellent. Iowa Hawkeyes big game this weekend. You’re predicting an upset.
Scott Scully: Tomorrow at 2:30 Central Standard Time, the Iowa Hawkeyes will destroy the Oregon Ducks’ chances of going to the playoffs. You heard it here first. I’m going to be there dressed in black. It’s the blackout.
Eric Watkins: I don’t know if it’s a blackout yet, but that’s what you’re doing.
Scott Scully: Yep. You guys should tune in because that’s what’s going to happen. Iowa’s going to keep their playoff hopes alive. They’re still in the mix. They’ve got to get through Oregon, then beat USC, and they’d be in the playoffs.
Eric Watkins: Interesting. They’re going to take three teams from the Big 10.
Scott Scully: They actually have a shot of getting in the Big 10 championship, which I do not want to do.
Eric Watkins: You want to just sneak in the playoffs?
Scott Scully: Michigan would have to beat Ohio State for that to happen.

Jeff: (Rolling eyes) Everything he said is not going to happen. But I do want to say something else. And I don’t mean to be negative—this is going to come off negative.
Scott Scully: Oh god.
Jeff: I think this is my least favorite time of year.
Group: Oh my god. Oh my god.
Jeff: I can’t stop watching college football, but what about this time of year is redeeming? It’s dark. It’s cold. There’s no holidays yet. It’s the anticipation of the holidays. I’m already excited about nothing good. Everything’s changed. My sinuses are calling in favors. My body can’t catch—
Scott Scully: Hey, they’ve been listening to this podcast a long time. They know about your sinuses.
Jeff: My dermatological issues are—I don’t know. Airports you can’t go. I think, declaratively, this is my least favorite time of the year.
Eric Watkins: You should get one of those sun lamps. It gives you the same rays of the sun and it helps with seasonal depression.
Jeff: I don’t have seasonal depression.
Scott Scully: You sound sad. You don’t like this time of year.
Jeff: I’ll be cool once we get to Thanksgiving for a little bit, but this is tough.

Scott Scully: Are you gonna stop talking about it anytime soon?
Jeff: You know what? I’m gonna go to Legendary Kick Stadium.
Eric Watkins: Legendary Kinnick Stadium.
Jeff: It is 100% chance of rain and 40 degrees, and I’m going to [bleep] love it. It’s going to be amazing.
Scott Scully: You going to take your shirt off?
Jeff: I might. I might.
Scott Scully: Please do. There is no better place to be freezing cold in the dark like Iowa.
Eric Watkins: Yeah, that’s a bone chill. Minneapolis—you go to Minnesota like, “This is going to be cold.” In Iowa, you don’t realize how cold it is until you’re there.
Scott Scully: Jeff, I’m going to have to cut you off. Don’t you think?
Eric Watkins: No. As an Iowan, no—because I went to college in Minnesota and they’re just not even close.
Scott Scully: I don’t think that Iowa is that much different than here weather-wise.
Eric Watkins: That’s insane. It’s [bleep] freezing.
Scott Scully: Have you ever been there?
Eric Watkins: Several times. Dozens of times. I love Iowa. Shout out to all of our fans.

Scott Scully: I’m ready to do the actual—are we recording? Let’s do that.
Eric Watkins: We are recording. I’m just kidding.

Segment: “Jeff Jail” (Objection Handling)

Scott Scully: All right. I’m here with my partners in growth. You heard from them. You know how Jeff feels. Jeff, start us off. Jeff Jail—who do we got?

Jeff: Each week, I’m singling out a sales rep or group of sales reps who are committing an offense—a crime—not against people or laws, but violating my sensibilities. This week it’s a group of sales reps I like to call the objection dodgers, the deflection department, the non-answer network, the clarification crew. These are the sales reps that when you ask them a question at the end of a sales call, they dodge it. They float around. They don’t answer your question. Answer my question.

Jeff: They dodge because they think they’re such good salespeople. They’re not. They’re annoying and they need to be thrown in jail. This segment is about how to handle objections. We can help these people.

Jeff: Example: “Jeff, your price is too high.” That’s an objection. We hear that. It would be easy to wander in a different direction and not answer. Or: “How much does it cost?” It would be so easy to start moving in different directions. Answer the question. Tell them how much it costs. Tell them what your service does.

Jeff: Scott, I’ve seen you with a sales rep where you ask them a question and they wander around and don’t directly answer. You don’t take it great.

Scott Scully: I hate it. I think people do it because they’re taken off track in their presentation and they don’t know how to go with the flow. I want the answer right away. If I ask a question, I just want them to answer it. Or if I have an objection, I want them to come at me right now and make me feel like they know what they’re talking about. Otherwise, you’ve lost me for good.

Jeff: Eric, you’ve been on some sales calls lately. Somebody asks you a question—you wander around? You part of the deflection department?

Eric Watkins: No. Naturally sometimes you do, but I try to be as direct as possible. The most important part, in my opinion, is yes—it’s annoying—but you only have so much real estate on these calls. You only have so much time. And if you’re spending five minutes spinning around talking about your answer, you’re cutting into valuable real estate you need to get out of that prospect.

Jeff: Amy?

Amy: I’d agree. It applies the same when you’re setting an appointment call. The stakes are super high there, too. And you tend to see SDRs dodge around objection handling because they’re scared they’re going to get the “no” right then at that point. It’s the same fear in the pitch and in the appointment setting. It’s drilling down to the sales rep being scared they’re going to get a no right there versus just directly answering it and then taking the conversation from there.

Jeff: I’ve got three tips.

Jeff: Tip 1: Don’t be afraid to just say yes or no.
“Are you guys based in St. Louis?” Yes.
That’s it. No story. No background.

Jeff: Tip 2: If you do need to explain: answer, then explain.
“Yes, we are based in St. Louis. And the reason why is because our founders founded the company here. We feel a sense of civic pride. We love the Midwest…”

Jeff: Tip 3: Objection handling in three steps:

1. Ask a clarifying question.
2. Slow down.
3. Use feel-felt-found.

Jeff: “Jeff, your price is too high.”
“What do you mean?”
“Well, on a per-lead basis, your price is too high.”
“Oh, I see what you’re saying—cost per lead is too high in your head. Interesting—I talked to a customer a few days ago who’s been with us a long time. They told me they got an amazing amount of ROI out of our service and at the time they bought, they believed price per lead was too high. But what they found is price per lead never mattered because the ROI is so high.”

Scott Scully: Jeff, I have stats. Deflection department—I have stats. Objection dodgers. Transparent sales reps close 30% to 50% more—HubSpot study. And Harvard Business Review says trust drops by 50% and buyers are three times less likely to buy if a salesperson dodges a question.

Eric Watkins: That’s big because everybody’s instinct is, “Well, why is your price so high?” and then you don’t even answer until the end. “What’s your price?” “Well, it depends…” Answer then explain.

Scott Scully: Yeah, good tips, Jeff.

Segment: Growth Jedi (Hiring “The One”)

Eric Watkins: Now we’re headed over to our growth Jedi who’s going to talk about why it’s so important to find the right people—to pick the one if you want to get it done. Did I have that right?
Scott Scully: There we go. Have I trained you tonight?
Eric Watkins: Help I can.

Scott Scully: Eric, let me ask you a question. Why does the NFL have a draft?
Eric Watkins: Because every player is not created equal, and it’s a super important way to build your team. You’ve got to spend every dollar and ounce of energy to make sure you’re putting the best team on the field.

Scott Scully: Amy, do you think an NBA team would put just the best they have in the lineup, or do you think they also try to find the best to put on the floor?
Amy: I do know nothing about the NBA, so that’s really hard for me to answer.
Scott Scully: Yeah, but the best—you know my point. Yes.

Scott Scully: There are sports organizations—or other examples—where somebody has an entire team dedicated to making sure that without fail they’re putting the best person in the position. A lot of times in business we take the best we have and put them in the spot—we want to hire from within, it’s what we know. Or maybe it’s the interviews I had. Maybe the recruiter sent me five people and I interviewed and I picked the best out of those five.

Scott Scully: If you are completely dedicated to not hiring a person to put in a position until you are pretty damn sure that person is the best at the job, then you worry less about your training. You worry less about your processes, how good your account management is—whatever. The list goes on. The right person solves the problem. Period. The right person figures it out.

Scott Scully: We’re always working on processes, training, how we can support people better to make jobs easier. But when we land on a person that just flat out gets it done, all of that stuff matters less. But we don’t do it. Don’t be tempted to be just good enough, or whoever you have that is best for that spot. Go out and find somebody that makes your life easier. If they’re reporting to you, they should know more than you about that particular section and they should make your life easier. If you’re doing their job—if they’re not making your life easier—you’re not done.

Scott Scully: You will look like an incredible leader if you just surround yourself with the people that know how to get it done. And you will go forward in a much more profitable way. If you want to get it done, you’ve got to hire that one. Then it’s all downhill from there.

Eric Watkins: We’ve been talking about it this week. When you don’t have the one, you parse out the job. Isn’t it great to have a person that owns the whole thing and can either do it or can’t?

Scott Scully: I was watching a TikTok of Steve Jobs. He said, “You know how many committees we have that run departments at Apple? None.” Somebody owns the iPhone. Somebody owns this. Jeff Bezos—single-threaded leadership. Give it to someone that can do the job, get out of the way, support them, help them, contribute where you’re uniquely able. But either they’ll sink or they’ll float. Give them the thing. Put the best people you’ve got there and get out of the way.

Eric Watkins: I’m guilty of stepping in and doing stuff I shouldn’t. It’s hard when you’re trying to get the business rolling and you need the result right now. It’s hard to not overstep. We’ve all done it—do part of the job for them to ensure you get there. But right off the get when you’re small, go hire the best people. It’s going to cost more, but two or three years later you’ll be glad you did that. You’ll be in a whole different spot.

Scott Scully: Where this is so important—it sounds so simple: everybody’s like, “Oh, duh. Put the right people in.” But then you’re in the spot where a key position turns over and there is immediate pain. Clients reaching out: “Who should I talk to?” The easiest thing is next person up—plug them in—immediate pain is gone. But what we’ve seen is if we plug that gap and we’re not 100% sure that person is the right person, long-term pain is way worse than short-term pain. Learn it from us—we’ve made those mistakes multiple times. Find bridges: be clear, for 60 days we’re going to do this, but we know it isn’t the long-term solution.

Amy: Another trap is leaders being afraid that the person will surpass them. Some of the best advice: pick the person who will know more than you and do it better than you, because then you’re not stuck. People think if they hire someone more talented, they’ll replace them. And that’s the entire point—to develop someone to where they make your life easier and you’re open for other opportunities and needs in the business. Leaders, don’t be afraid to pick the best person directly underneath you.

Scott Scully: That’s a good point. I’d look at you as an incredible leader if you found somebody better doing what you’re doing than I could have you go find someone else to do something else.

Eric Watkins: Pick the one. Pick the one you want. Pick the one to get it done.
Scott Scully: You have so little to do on this thing. It’s a tongue twister.
Eric Watkins: Pick the one if you want to get it done.
Scott Scully: I got it now. I see.

Segment: Heartfelt Sales (NALP + In-Person Selling)

Scott Scully: Amy, you’ve recently gone to an event and posted some videos—had some incredible conversations. Talk to us about that event and your theme today, which is heartfelt sales.

Amy: We attended NALP earlier this week—Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. It’s the National Association of Landscape Professionals. We met with hundreds of landscaping companies, and the exhibitors were typically vendors of landscaping companies.

Amy: First of all, they put on an incredible event. We attended a women’s-only luncheon and event the first day and I thought that was awesome. They gave a stat that in the past three years, attendance to that conference is now 50% women—women actually in the industry and leading in the industry. We heard the CRO of a very large landscaping company speak. It was really cool to see this industry embracing women being in landscaping, and being in sales too.

Amy: Heartfelt selling—I saw two LinkedIn posts this week about companies sending handwritten direct mail to their prospects. It’s popping up even more. We’ve done that now for over a year and a half, but those posts talked about heartfelt selling and I loved that. It ties into in-person events too.

Amy: It was wild how many people would come up to our booth and ask, “So what do you do?” They wanted to have a human conversation and connect in person. You don’t get that opportunity on the phones, in email, or LinkedIn. There’s this need right now—with so much AI and technology—people are returning a little to the old-school ways of heartfelt human-to-human selling.

Amy: It was also eye-opening that if you go to trade shows and your service is service-based, you have to know what differentiates you in the marketplace. We saw exhibitors with tractors and physical tech products. We’re service-based, and if you’re selling in person without a physical product, you have to be sharp on what makes you different.

Amy: With the ups and downs of Google right now and other channels, invest in trade shows and in-person selling experiences in 2026, because I think it’s going to be more and more on the rise.

Eric Watkins: Scott, you’ve been selling in person for years. Talk about the importance of that and why we’re going back to that as an organization.

Scott Scully: Years ago, we sold 100% face-to-face. We were sending people all over the country on planes and entertaining car dealers. It got really expensive. We built a process where we could internalize sales and did it 100% over the phone—there was less noise then.

Scott Scully: Now we’ve arrived at a point where we’re spending so much money on leads for our salespeople that it’s gone back. We honor the phone—we do email, LinkedIn, some Google—and we’ll always honor the phone because we’re the best at it. But we’re eliminating spend in other areas, and we’ve been planning sales rep trips to get out face-to-face. Believe it or not, it’s a differentiator. In our space, there’s no one doing it. Close rates are three or four times higher.

Scott Scully: We’re going to save $50,000 to $75,000 a month in marketing expense by putting people on the street again in mini trips. We had our first round and it was already successful. People are excited about it.

Eric Watkins: I talked to the first rep that went on our first trip and something he said stuck out to me. He said, “These guys are getting asked to be on Zoom calls all the time and they’re taking some of them.” But for them to be in person—it lands five, ten times greater than saying the same thing over a computer screen.

Scott Scully: That’s a great point. In business, the efficiency is easy to fall in love with—virtual pitches, no travel cost—but you should always do some in person to evaluate what true efficiency you’re missing out on. If it’s five times better, four times better—whatever it is—you need to know.

Eric Watkins: You go out on a trip and your close rate’s 30% and it’s 6% on the phone—what’s going on? Maybe you stay on the phone most of the time, but you’ve got to figure out how to duplicate what was happening on the road.

Scott Scully: It’s so much different to sell in person—
Eric Watkins: Not really.
Scott Scully: No, it’s not. You can’t wear gym shorts, sure. Body language matters. Everything else is the same—no computer screen. If it helps you, imagine there’s a computer screen.

Scott Scully: I’m bullish on in person. I’m bullish on events. It takes the life out of me, but it’s productive. Exhausting, but so productive.

Eric Watkins: There’s no tired like “got to the trade show at 7:30 and it’s 9:00 at night after the post-trade-show dinner” tired.

Scott Scully: We were at an automotive trade show for three days. We tracked everything. I think we did like 875 full presentations to individual car dealers over a three-day period. We were young—we went out hard every night and then did that every day. But it was so productive.

Eric Watkins: Do you remember the names of the people you met with?
Scott Scully: I barely remember my own name. I’m beat.

Eric Watkins: Great topic, Amy. Glad you had a great time at that event.

Segment: “To Do or Not To Do” (Trade Show Strategy)

Eric Watkins: We’ve made it to “To Do or Not To Do.” This one is timely based on what we were talking about. When you go to these events, do you try to play the volume game—get as many business cards and introductions as possible—or do you zero in on people you’ve had better conversations with and go for quality over quantity? Amy, let’s start with you.

Amy: For us, we went with who was the best fit with the landscapers. We did research beforehand—picked targets. We were in luck that a lot of the ones primed for growth came to our booth. But we walked around for volume with exhibitors because we know we can get them into the types of companies they’re looking for. So we had a mix—targeting plus volume. We got more business cards walking around exhibitor booths than from the landscaping companies.

Jeff: I have to do volume. Otherwise I’ll have three and I’m like, “I don’t want to do any more conversations.” Every trade show is the same: I get there and I’m frozen—go find someone to talk to. You’ve got to have the first conversation, then the second, then it’s like, “All right, I’m going to talk to 25 people.” Some are better, longer, shorter. But I’m going to talk to X number of people or I won’t do it because it’s exhausting.

Scott Scully: You’re building a funnel at the show. Automotive example: companies that do it right have a first layer responsible for bringing people into the booth. Second layer does a quick conversation—gets them excited and qualifies them. Then there are closing rooms in the booth in the back where they take someone qualified and interested, pull them back, and someone with deeper experience has a more in-depth conversation.

Scott Scully: At night, they rent a suite or a bar or restaurant, invite top prospects, and have clients there at the show talking about how much they love working with that company. It’s well orchestrated. And the follow-up after is beautiful.

Scott Scully: You’ve got to do both. You need the masses to bring it down to a smaller amount. But if you’re going to spend that much at a show, you should try to close them at the show. Three layers: get them to the booth, get them excited, get them to the closing room. If that doesn’t work, pull them to the suite, feed them cocktails and food, and close them with your clients around.

Eric Watkins: There were secret speakeasy parties.
Amy: I told Ryan, we need a speakeasy party next time to close people.

Jeff: One phenomenon that’s universally true about trade shows: people at your prospect’s company who are not influential at the office are influential at the trade show because they’re fun. Someone perceived as lower-level—nobody cares at the office—but the CEO might care at the trade show because they’re fun. So be careful who you dismiss.

Scott Scully: There are people good at bringing people to the booth, qualifying, closing, and entertaining—and people good at taking all of that and following up after. If you orchestrate it the right way, you can literally get your pipeline full for an entire quarter.

Eric Watkins: Yep. Huge.

Eric Watkins: Well, great insight on the event piece. Good insight overall. Good to be back with you all. And until next time—let’s grow.
Group: Let’s grow. Let’s grow.