A positive company culture is the key to long-term sustained success. It helps teams feel valued and motivated, which in turn leads to greater engagement and productivity. Learn how we’ve built an award-winning culture that helps attract and retain team members.
#2Truthsand1LiefromLinkedIn: Huge shout outs for the TRUTHS this week that come from:
#50for50: If you want to strengthen your company culture, implement culture roles that help individuals contribute to the overall health of the company. Everyone loves feeling like they’re part of something bigger than themselves.
#MiningForGrowthGold: If you’re too focused on research before making sales calls, you’re wasting your time. You’ll learn more about your prospect if you just pick up the phone and dial.
#TalesfromSales: As a sales rep, you may be eager to pitch your services and close the sale. But listening to your prospects is one of the most powerful tools at your arsenal.
Why Awards Are A Real Reason To Celebrate
How Creating A Playbook For Each Position Helps Cultivate Champion Team Members
How Client Success Can Impact More Than Your Retention Rates
Create blogs and social copy in minutes to publish content consistently without draining your resources. Keep the momentum going with audience-engaging email campaigns. Nurture leads, spread the word about an upcoming event, or follow up with prospects after, knowing that the touch pattern of every campaign you create is designed using industry best practices for maximum impact.
Create blogs and social copy in minutes to publish content consistently without draining your resources. Keep the momentum going with audience-engaging email campaigns. Nurture leads, spread the word about an upcoming event, or follow up with prospects after, knowing that the touch pattern of every campaign you create is designed using industry best practices for maximum impact.
In this episode, we discuss the importance of building a company culture with strong recognition practices like specific achievement shout outs and celebrations which increases engagement and boosts morale. Recognition should be given to employees for their hard work and achievements as well as their loyalty and dedication.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to the growth show. Season two. I’m here with my partners and growth. Eric Watkins. Hello. Hello. Jeff winters Welcome back to Season Two, season two baby. We have had a ton of fun. that what our fans are called Grow nation. The growshowians, I said the grossshowians, the growshins, the growshowians, we watched tape like any great team, we watched some tape, right? We are new and improved season two, even better tips, more actionable advice. And a little bit of fun along the way a little bit a lot more fun. Even more fun, even more fun, even more fun. We have a couple of surprises for you. And I’m excited to get into it. Jeff Winters is going to start with what we like to call two truths, and a lie from LinkedIn. Two Truths and a Lie. I love it. What’s this all about? So for those are you going to use names? I’m going to use some names.
Jeff Winters 01:13
For those new to this segment, what we’re going to do here is we’re going to spotlight each episode, two posts that we read on LinkedIn that are true, and one that we strongly believe. And in some cases, may go as far as to say we know are false. They’re liars, liars. And part of this is funny. Well, a lot of this is funny. We’re gonna have some fun with it. But also there’s some seriousness to it, guys. Because people go on LinkedIn. They read stuff that people post, and they sprint back to their business and they implement it. And there is no sheriff of LinkedIn to say, hey, stop sign before you go and implement this. This is wrong. This is a thing you should not do. And so we are going to play a tiny part in helping people know what they should use and what they should.
Scott Scully 02:16
Sheriff of LinkedIn
Jeff Winters 02:20
Shall we get into it? Let’s start with a couple of truths. First truth comes from Zorian Rotenberg. And Zorian says great companies will not repeat will not deprioritize growth Great companies will not deprioritize growth in an economic downturn. And I think this is A. extremely timely and B. couldn’t be more true. I think as I as I recall. Marc Benioff, CEO of Salesforce said something to the effect of you should spend on sales and marketing all the time. But in when times are tough, you must spend on sales and marketing, I will double down. I think about that, like the stock market. Right. Right now people are freaking out because of where we’re at. And the people with a lot of money. What are they doing?
Scott Scully 03:22
They’re pouring money into the market. They know that there are good buys that are coming back. I couldn’t agree more. I’d call that a truth for sure.
Jeff Winters 03:31
Truth, Eric.
Eric Watkins 03:32
Yeah, absolutely a truth because no company stays the same. You’re not, you’re not just gonna stay the same. You’re either growing or you’re dying every single day. And the moment you make the decision to stop prioritizing the growth of your business, you’ve already started the dying portion, no matter the economic situation.
Jeff Winters 03:53
Truth, all agree, checkmark all agree, check, check. Truth Number two, comes from Josh Ahlquist. And Josh says leadership is not just allowing your employees to do whatever they want. It’s tempting to do that. It’s easier in the short term. It avoids confrontation. But in the long term, it will backfire. This, to me is about accountability. That’s what this is. And I couldn’t feel any more strongly about the fact that we are in a a, a turning point, right like like today we’re at a turning point for businesses where they’re either going to say we are going to hold people accountable, which is a good thing. And and Scott’s got a 50 for 50 on this, which is a not only a good thing, it’s a great thing. It’s a necessary thing. Or we’re going to avoid confrontation at all costs. We are so afraid that people are going to quit that we’re just going to let them let our employees do whatever they want. Which in certain cases is not in their best interest. It’s not in the client’s best interest. It’s not the company’s best interest. I think this is a very important truth.
Scott Scully 05:11
You know, give people the gift of high expectations. I couldn’t agree with Josh. Right? I love you, Josh. Love you, Josh. Josh, there aren’t many people that have the guts to say what you’re saying right now. Because it’s just not what people know. Unfortunately, now, people are growing up, they’re not being held accountable in school. They’re not being held accountable, you know, on their sports teams, by their parents, you know, and then we get them into business. And they have difficulty, not being able to do everything that they want to do and live life exactly the way that they want to live it. And that doesn’t always work, especially in the workplace, when there are processes that are lined out. So I that you know, my vote is a truth, for sure. Thanks, Josh.
Eric Watkins 05:56
Hi, Josh. I agree with Josh as well. And I think, you know, I’m a big fan of the five levels of leadership, by John Maxwell. And one of the things he talks about is that what has to come first, in a leader and team member relationship is the team’s mission or vision. And what he’s talking about here, my opinion is that the team’s mission and vision comes first, before being kind or nice, or whatever it may be, you can do both. But you if you sacrifice that, if we just come to work all day, and we just hang out and have a great time, we’re gonna all not have jobs very soon. So we’re here to do to carry out our mission or vision. So I would agree with him.
Jeff Winters 06:39
And now the lie the lie, and boys, we’re not just going with any lie. We’re taking on a little company called Gartner. Revenue, we’re not taking them on, we’re taking on the implication of what they say. Let me be clear, we’re not taking them on. But I think this is a whopper. What do we got? A recent Gartner survey showed company mandates requiring employees to be in the office actually drive connectedness down, not up among employees with “radical flexibility”. End quote, which is defined as considerable freedom over location schedule of work, schedule, work volume team and projects 53%, I assume of those employees reported a high degree of connectedness, whereas just 18% of those with low flexibility, reported a high degree of connectedness. Who did they interview? How many surveys and who did they interview? I don’t know, they are very respected source we respect and love Gartner. I think this is a lie. I know it to be a lie. I do not think that employees are more connected with radical flexibility. I think it’s true that they’ll tell you that they are, right. But I think this is a big lie. And I think the world’s turning on this. We’ve turned on this as a company. Yeah, when they do it. Right. When was the survey? I wouldn’t question that someone answered the question that way.
Scott Scully 08:22
I would question that they understood what was actually happening with their organization? Well, I don’t think that their people are more connected. By being out of office with more work from home flexibility
Eric Watkins 08:38
will take take my opinion out of it, I have, I could probably give you a list of 100 people who have told me what being back in the office has done for them. A, B, who filled out the survey, it’s probably all the people who have time to survey in our, in our, in the office connecting with people and they’re too busy to fill out surveys. So it’s a lie. It’s a lie, Scott.
Scott Scully 09:06
All right. Like Eric said, we have people that were just not excited about coming back at all, that once they got back realized it was good for their mental health, they were able to collaborate in a in a in a better way. And we are on fire. We’re back. Our culture is coming back to where it was before COVID. And you know what, people didn’t love it. And we had to make the difficult decision to to come back we’ve still got a couple of opportunity days out of the office, maybe even more than a lot of organizations but in office, staring at each other, collaborating working as a team is more productive or, or some of the largest companies in the world wouldn’t be making the move to have their people come back right now. You think they don’t do surveys, they don’t do studies. They don’t just make moves like that. You know? without knowing exactly what they need to do to make their business better.
Jeff Winters 10:04
Lie, employees will feel more connected with radical flexibility. Lie, lie. You heard it here first.
Scott Scully 10:16
I love it. You know, we were talking a little bit about whether or not we were going to actually call out who made the lies? And you did it. We called them out.
Eric Watkins 10:27
You did it. And it’s a big source. It’s a big source, I don’t think they lie. Can we use one case study? One case study, we had a team member that leaves and he wouldn’t mind me sharing, but I won’t say his name,
Jeff Winters 10:40
left because of our lack of flexibility. Yeah. And coming back, he recently came back and he said, I didn’t get to meet with my team in the six months at my new company, and I actually miss being in the office. I’m talking about like the champion, the champion of work from home. Radical flexibility. So to my point earlier I was gonna make earlier because that’s such an important anecdote. Gartner didn’t lie. Gartner did the numbers. But the implication is a lie, implication, the implication is a lie. And let me tell you all something out there. A little spoiler alert, you can save your survey on whether or not employees want radical flexibility. They do, you don’t need to do the survey. They do. This is not a decision you can make based on the survey, it’s just not, you got to make it based on what’s in the best interest of the business [that’s a great point], period. Yeah, if we’re to be honest, we probably thought that more people would actually answer
50 for 50
Scott Scully 11:39
The world’s changing for the better. All right, we are going to get into the 50 for 50. Again, this is, we put our heads together and came up with the 50 processes or policies or action items that we would do 100% of the time, if we started again, we all agreed. These are the these are the things that we would live by. And I’m going to start with one and these are not an order of importance just happens to be the one that we’re going to talk about today. And that is forced recognition. Yes, I did say forced recognition. Love it. Love did say forced recognition. So you’re thinking out there, I know you are, you’re already thinking, I can’t do that. It needs to be organic, you know, people are going to know that I was forced to recognize them. and recognize them for the good work they’re doing. Now, a good manager should do this anyway. Right. But we’re just putting the policies in place. Because we’re growing like crazy. We have a lot of new managers. And we want to make it so important. That it’s actually part of their metrics. And it’s part of what we watch and measure what happens over time, then that’s learned behavior, you got to do something what how many times before it becomes a habit? Well, I had, whatever it was couple months or something. But as we make our managers do this, then all of a sudden, it’s second nature. And then they’re not just doing it. Once a week, they’re doing it daily, or multiple times daily. And it’s been amazing to watch. And we put a nice channel together so that they could share with others. Guess what people like it. And they know that managers need to pick someone. Right? But guess what, when you’re growing up, teachers had to pick one student to give the gold star. I always wanted the one person got the gold star. And guess what, Jeff never got them. And I did, right just four people in your class. But look, this works. Put something in place. Whatever the period of time is, where your managers have to do it, they still get to pick who they still get to pick how they still get to pick for what they’re recognizing them for. But that means that your people that are on the front lines that are doing important work get recognized. And when they do they perform at a higher level and your company grows, forced
Eric Watkins 15:00
recognition, lean in, give them a card, buy him a coke, send them a meme, send them an email, put it in Slack, recognize them in front of people, put it on a TV, write it on a whiteboard, do it in a lot of different ways. But do it right now, immediately if you’re not doing it started today, Eric, what do you think? Well, I first off, I think you have to get a lot of credit for this, because you took a lot of flack for it. So when we implemented it for our company, there was a lot of pushback, including myself of like, Scott, I don’t want to force people to recognize one another, like let this happen organically. But you saw that it just wasn’t happening consistently enough. And you saw this future vision of what it could be. And now I see it in action. Like, it’s the snowball effect, like the Snowball is so big, it’s just rolling now. And it’s to the point where something good happens, like someone will talk to me in a meeting about somebody that did something really good. And they’ll say like, I gotta put this in the success channel. What? Like, that’s just a, it’s just a thing that happens. Now that wasn’t even thought about before. It was just a comment that was made in the room. Now. It’s taken on a life of its own, for people to really build it up. I
Jeff Winters 16:34
That’s what I that’s why I bristled and then I came to recognize Scott saying forced recognition. That’s a provocative term. It’s just a, it’s a reminder, that’s what this is, it is a reminder to do something that is so easy to have slip, because it doesn’t quote unquote, move the needle, which by the way, it does absolutely all the other shit you’re doing. It probably does. This is just a reminds provocative to say forced recognition. And it, it works. Because it needs to be, like have that underscore of importance. This is a reminder for managers and leaders to do probably one of the most important things they can do, which is recognize people and which in turn motivates them. And everyone I’m a huge proponent of this, the I think our people started with the you were saying it maybe gets skipped over.
Scott Scully 17:29
Your new manager sits there with 15-20 things they think that they have to do during the day. And they noticed something that was awesome. And they’re thinking, God, I gotta get to Sam and tell Sam that I really enjoyed what he did with X client. But the day goes on, and they’re filling out reports and doing things. And then the next day goes in the next day after that, and he or she forgets to sit down with Sam and just really recognize them for a job well done. If that’s like that one thing that day, Sam is so productive of Sam probably figures out how to, you know, whatever it is go make more dials or learn the industry, they don’t know well or be a better teammate, like a lot of things that were on the manager list anyway, probably get knocked off or checked off. Because, you know, the manager recognizes Sam, I couldn’t believe this is a this is a must, I think I agree. Couldn’t agree more. So go out there, put some sort of actionable plan in place for the recognition of your people, you doing it with your executive team, your executive team, doing it with their team, all the way across your entire organization. And I think you’re going to be amazed at what you’ll see just 30 to 60 days in, people love to share good stories. And quite frankly, we do the same thing. You know, we try to tie our customers in to write just and some customer success stories and recognizing our customers as well. So beautiful. Next thing we’re going to get into is a section with Eric, what do we call this section
Mining for Growth Gold
Eric Watkins 19:25
here mining for growth goal. So we’re going to rotate through calls, emails, LinkedIn and website on what is the best goal that we have over 15 years in business doing lead generation. So we’re going to start with calls. It’s why we started way back when this is our flagship product. Cold Calls. cold call
Scott Scully 19:48
so why people still cold call.
Eric Watkins 19:50
You know what’s funny is our dials to appointment and maybe we’ve gotten better, hasn’t changed over the last 10 years. Stop it Ah, so instead of dying, where it’s actually better, like it’s more impactful, and you know what, every time I hear someone say cold calling is dead, it’s music to my ears. You know why? one less person making calls baby are for us more for us. So, so for any competitors, cold calling is dead out there. So stop making cold calls. But anybody else pick up the phone, it’s a waste of time, don’t let anybody else listen to this. So what we’re going to talk about today is closing with value. So when people make their cold calling scripts, and they’re taking their message to market, a lot of people go like this, if you know a lot of people either say like, what do we do different, and we’re just going to leave with that we’re not going to focus on the problems we solve at all. So problem focused is super important. But once you’ve gotten to that step, what a lot of people do is, what are the problems our customers are having? And they start there. And I actually think you should start here, write down a list of the three things that your company does better than anybody else. Not some generic bullshit that anybody could say not you have the best customer service, like what do you truly do? That’s different than everybody else? From that list? What is the problem that you solve with that differentiator is what we’ll call it. And then once you have that problem, use three sequential questions that you can dig in deep three levels on that problem. And then on every cold call, you have three problems, three sequential questions. And then from there, when you close, you can add in that differentiator, instead of saying it upfront where no one’s listening to you, and no one cares about your company, you’re actually saying it after you’ve brought up that problem on the phone, we call them relevant topics here. But I’ll give you an example. Let’s say an IT provider is going through their top three things they do as a business. And they say our one of our top things is we have five minute response time, like that is a faster response time than 99% of companies. So what they would realize is that okay, what is what is the problem response time solves? The problem itself is lack of downtime for a business keeps you up and running. And because we know how painful and how expensive that can be. So they would ask three questions like this. So in in, in the spirit of response time, or lack of downtime, they would say, what would it look like for your business? If your technology was down for an hour? When was the last time you experienced downtime as a business? What are you doing to ensure you never have downtime in the future? So you ask these questions, and these prospects are going to answer these questions, and they’re going to give you some data. So then when you go to close the appointment, it’s very easy. Well, based on what you shared with me today, Jeff, about the downtime that your company is experiencing, we would love to meet with you to discuss how we actually have a five minute response time for every prospect that we talked to, that we talked to that we work with, would Monday or Tuesday work better for you. So we’re closing with the value instead of using the value upfront when they’re when they’re closed off to it, because then it makes perfect sense. And it’s a perfect way to bridge to closing the appointment.
Scott Scully 23:08
I love the playbook. By the way, you’re pretty good at this. How many appointments did we set in one day, the first day of this month,
Eric Watkins 23:15
first day, we set 535 appointments?
Jeff Winters 23:19
How many I’m gonna set this year total,
Eric Watkins 23:20
we will set roughly 75,000 between sales enablement and fulfillment, delivery, delivery for our clients and sales.
Scott Scully 23:30
Are they small companies, big companies, what are what are our clients,
Eric Watkins 23:34
it’s all over the map. It’s all over the map. You know, we have some fortune 100 companies that we work with. And we do some very large kind of whale hunting programs. And then we have, you know, your startup company that’s just doesn’t have any clients and they’re trying to grow their business. And then we have companies all in between, across multiple industries across multiple industries in every state, in every state. And the beauty about this tip is it doesn’t matter. I don’t care what you sell. This approach can work for you
Scott Scully 24:03
1000s and 1000s of calls and 12 years later, you know you land on a process that that works. So hopefully our audiences replaying this and jotting down notes and implementing it into their revived cold calling
Eric Watkins 24:21
revive cold call.
Scott Scully 24:22
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And
Jeff Winters 24:24
what do you think? I think we’re this sticks out to me is so often you hear the cold calling advice. Tell him what to do. Tell me why you’re different. And you’re right, Eric, when I get when I get a cold call or when everybody gets a cold call. You’re like a little there’s a moment of disorientation up front where it’s like okay, wait, do I do I know this person? Do I have this problem interest in this? Do I want to stop this? Like you’re have this internal thinking that’s going on and you’re like half paying attention? If not, why waste the most important part of your spiel, when I’m not fully engaged in this call? I think it’s a noteworthy difference and I think it’s something that People who are making calls. First of all, if you’re not making cold calls want to grow your business, what are you doing. But for those who are making calls or manage people who make calls, this is something you can implement tomorrow.
Eric Watkins 25:08
Yeah, I like to use it as like the analogy of like the door opening, like say you’re knocking on doors old school cold calling, right? Like you’re trying to use your best statement as the door is just like creaked open, just a little bit like, wait until you get the door open a little bit by asking some questions about the problem that’s super relevant to what really, really makes you different as a company. It’s what’s worked for us. And now when we have this playbook, and that’s really one of the key concepts. And what we do. And the other side is like, there’s some really smart people that are like, just focus on the problems that the prospect is having. And that’s great. But if those problems don’t relate to something you do really well as a company, then you’re leading yourself down a path where ultimately you’re not going to have you know, the a really compelling reason that meat.
Scott Scully 25:56
Great point. I love it that you’re bringing the fire episode one,
Eric Watkins 26:01
episode one bringing the hate e one s two e one s two. Love it.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 26:06
So hopefully, as an audience, you know, it’s becoming fairly obvious what the flow is for us here. We’re trying to basically lay out the advice that people are giving online and kind of help you determine what is good advice and what’s bad, then we’re gonna go through and talk to you about how to set up your business for growth. And then Eric’s going to talk about how to drive more leads, so that you can have more sales meetings through different channels. And then we get on to our next section where Jeff, now you have the leads, your company is set up for growth, you’ve got the leads, man, if you can’t sell, you’re in trouble. We’ve got a sales section, what’s this call?
Jeff Winters 26:58
This section is called Tales from sales. And I love that we’ve organized it this way. You’re right, Scott, we got How are you going to get those leads? And then once you have them, what are some actionable tips, what are some actionable stories to illuminate why these tips work for how we can close those leads, better, faster, close more of them. So today’s tip is very tactical. And it is simply this, you must talk about the price of whatever you sell on the first sales call on the first sales call. And that’s controversial, it is totally controversial, except for in the minds of prospects, where it is nearly universal. And I have some data to back this up. Two out of every three buyers on the first sales call, want to talk about price. And unfortunately, about one in every five sellers wants to talk about price. On the first call, it is a huge disconnect. Buyers want to hear about price sellers don’t want to talk about price. And as a seller, you must come to the buyer here, you must talk about price on the first call. And here’s why. Because on average buyers before their first sales call or looking at tons of information on you, there’s enormous amounts of information, frankly, everything they need to know about you set aside one thing is available to them online. You know what the one thing that they can’t find online and not always but most of the time is the price, the price. So you must give the buyer what they can’t find online because they’re prepared. And what they ultimately asked for, which is the price because after that call, a decision is going to be made, not whether they’re going to buy or not necessarily, although on some calls, that is the case. But the decision is going to be made on whether or not they should progress the buyer should progress with this in their mind. Should I take this any further? And if not fine? And if so let’s how can they possibly make that decision? Without knowing what the price is? And here’s what I hear people saying out there in their head. They go Jeff, we got to scope the project. We have to we have no idea what the price could be. Yeah, you do. You do? You do. You don’t have to give him an exact dollar, give them a range ballpark at ballpark it. Do not let prospects off the call without having some idea of what the price of whatever you’re selling is must do do it today.
Scott Scully 29:43
I love that I think that you’re breaking down trust by avoiding price. And I’ve been through a lot of sales training over 30 years. And it is amazing how much of that training would suggest you putting it off, right? Yeah. Like, I’ll get to that. Or I don’t know yet, I’ve got to ask you more questions. And some of that is irrelevant. But you can always get to a per hour, I, here’s what I charge per hour, but I gotta walk around, do an assessment of how many hours it’s going to take me and then I’ll give you an exact price, because I know that you want that, and you deserve it. But a lot of the training would suggest avoided for a long time or long time, right, which is not what the buyer wants.
Eric Watkins 30:30
Yeah, I love it too. Because first off, I’ve never bought anything in my life without knowing the price. So you’re gonna lose 100% of sales where your customers don’t know the price. Second thing is there’s so so many decision makers involved these days. And you just take for like, some of these people only talk to their boss once a month, once every two weeks, and time kills all deals. So if you have you presented to an influencer that has to go talk to their boss to get approval on it. And you didn’t give him the price. What do you think their boss is gonna say the first thing? Well, how much does it cost? Why don’t know, they didn’t tell me? Well, then you just push out your sale, two more weeks, one more month. So I think it’s crucial. And on the first call to discuss the price. I agree.
Scott Scully 31:13
Can you imagine going into an electronics store, you’re buying a TV, you walk over to the wall, the TV’s, they’ve eliminated all of the pricing. You have to hit a button for a rep to come over. You point it to TV like and then they’ve got to go through all of the features of the TV before you get the price of the TV. Would you ever go back to that store? Again? No, never so annoying.
Jeff Winters 31:40
Because people go well, how much is it? Well, hang on, I want to I want to get to that. Because what they think in their head is I’m going to build so much value that the price is going to look trivial. And what the buyers actually thinking is, what are you hiding? Right, right. What are you hiding? And why are you hiding it? Can’t do it. Say the price on the first call GIMP arrange of you must
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 32:04
love it. Love it. I like this last section to do or not to do.
Eric Watkins 32:16
So we’re gonna start with, I did some cooking the other night? No, you didn’t. I did some cooking. I don’t believe it. And what you’ll get to know in this section is there’s a lot of incompetence around this table for everything other than business. And that is a truth. That is a that is a truth. That is not a lie from LinkedIn. So I got the grill started up. But I didn’t get the grill started up. I turned the gas on and I realized, Oh, I forgot the LiDAR, right? It’s on automatic grill. So I have to like you know, you got to stick to the long LIDAR in there and light it up. Turn the gas on, close the thing and go back into get the LIDAR get distracted. Do a couple other things. Come back out. Fire. Light the fire, boom. Flames up in my face. I think I’m dying. I think the house is on fire. Like
Scott Scully 33:06
yeah, you’re missing part of an eyebrow. See? The face was
Eric Watkins 33:11
good. But on my hands. I have burned off all the hairs on my Yeah, on my hands and not good. It could have been not good. And I was talking to somebody at work who said their friend’s mom did it and like had third degree burns on their face. But moral of the story. Don’t turn the gas on until you’re ready to light it and don’t close the thing after you turn the gas on
Scott Scully 33:33
or buy a grill that you know yeah, they all have this built in. How old is this grill?
Eric Watkins 33:41
It’s kind of new, you know? It’s not too old.
Scott Scully 33:43
No Yeah, the over there’s chicken is that like that doesn’t exist
Eric Watkins 33:48
doesn’t exist. No, no. Oh no. Here this grill here is actually here’s actually the thing it was an electric start and the electric start oh I broke on it so then I had to manually do it. Oh yeah. Yeah. Do you guys so have you ever started a grill in your life by the way Jeff?
Jeff Winters 34:03
I’m gonna I’m I’m not an expert.
Scott Scully 34:05
I he gets delivery from truffles. Delivery Yeah,
Jeff Winters 34:09
Chick fil A delivery No, I do grill I but I don’t use the thermometer. I don’t need the thermometer. I can I can with my finger feel and I know that sounds gross but I can feel when something’s done with my finger and my my father in law who I love is like the grill master you know like Weber calls him for his fucking opinion and when I grill for the whole family’s you think you think that chickens done now? Do you think it’s an add on? I got it. I got that’s the last a I don’t understand the thermometer. You should be able to do it by yourself and be like, if you’re over somebody’s house eat and you can’t ask questions about the grill and too much pressure on the griller
Eric Watkins 34:50
Yeah, everybody’s gonna get salmonella from Jeff’s chicken. Oh,
Jeff Winters 34:54
a chicken is burnt. I rather have dry chicken Sick Kids. Yes, that’s marked down Sit down, mark that note that note that dry chicken over so you can’t swallow that
Eric Watkins 35:04
you can’t sweat the grill or though like or do it yourself. No, you know or do it yourself. You’re in my house. You’re gonna eat my shit. Yeah, you’re gonna need my bird chick.
Jeff Winters 35:12
That’s right. You don’t like it put in the Miko don’t and don’t even ask me to put it back on. It’s not going back on. It’s going in the microwave or in your mouth. That’s us.
Eric Watkins 35:20
That’s putting the fire
Scott Scully 35:25
we have hopefully brought you some incredibly actionable business advice. And hopefully you’re a better griller
Eric Watkins 35:36
hopefully, you’re better than Eric Watkins. And just don’t light yourself on fire. I’m glad I’m here today. I’m glad I’m here to
Scott Scully 35:42
you can’t grow your business if you’re not around. That’s true.
Jeff Winters 35:46
I think the quote of this episode was I’d rather have dry chicken over sick kids. There’s something to that meal
35:54
in the microwave, or it’s going in your mouth. Like that one.
Jeff Winters 35:59
I’m not putting it back on.
Scott Scully 36:01
As always, we enjoyed bringing you you know some good things that we’ve learned along the way. Put these action items into play. We feel like you’re just ease your tractor growth. What do you think? Good episode one.
Eric Watkins 36:14
Great episode one. Let’s grow. Let’s grow let’s grow.
36:21
The grow show is sponsored by Reggie are your outbound sales campaigns not driving the engagement you’re looking for? Revenue leaders rely on reggie.ai to write high performing sales copy that cuts through the noise and books more meetings. Want to see how it works. Head over to reggie.ai/grow show and learn how to put the power of best practices and AI into the hands of your sales team.
We explore the benefits of having high expectations for your team and how it can help drive a culture of excellence and accountability.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:01
Welcome back to The Grow Show. I’m with my co-hosts, Jeff winters.
Jeff Winters 00:08
Hey, everybody. Welcome back.
Scott Scully 00:10
Eric Watkins,
Eric Watkins 00:11
Episode Two, Season Two, Episode Two.
Scott Scully 00:15
My name is Scott Scully, and we are bringing the heat and your route from zero to 50 million. Stories from the front lines, actionable advice, plus we’re having a little fun, aren’t we? Yeah, we are. New format this season. I thought the first episode went great. First one went great. But I think we’ve got an even better episode today. I think so
Jeff Winters 00:39
to be hard to do. Yeah.
Scott Scully 00:41
And you know what I love we get to get it started with Two Truths, and a Lie from LinkedIn. To truths
Eric Watkins 00:49
and a Lie. What’s your intro to this?
Jeff Winters 00:53
That if it ain’t that I don’t know what it is.
Scott Scully 00:59
It’s gonna be on a recording.
Jeff Winters 01:00
Really liked that intro to truth and a lie from LinkedIn. First time listeners, longtime listeners, a reminder, what we’re doing here is we’re going on LinkedIn. What used to be this pristine Bastion, this untouched garden of incredible, accurate, don’t even question it business advice, has now grown some weeds. And we are here to differentiate what is truth and what is not. And so today, as always, we’re going to start with our two truths that we saw on LinkedIn. The first, and I love this one from Abby Johnston, Abby says, it makes sense and it’s also counterintuitive, parenthesis, at least to me, me being me that we are most effective at driving improvement with our teams. By focusing on the positives, this is all about recognition, and the importance of recognition with our teams and how important it is. Episode One Scott did his 50 for 50 tip on mandating recognition. Abby’s talking about it. We love Abby, we believe in this advice, don’t we?
Scott Scully 02:20
I am not always good at this. I’m admitting that. But I could not agree with Abby more lead with something positive, right. And I just feel like you’re building equity. Right? You’re noticing all the things that that somebody is doing? You know, that are right, which then gives you kind of the relationship and the trust to be able to talk to somebody about the things that need to work on. It’s a truth to me.
Jeff Winters 02:47
It’s a truth to me to an Eric. Like, I think an interesting part of this comment is she’s right. It is counterintuitive, because typically, as leaders were given constructive criticism. You think the truth?
Eric Watkins 03:00
I think it’s true with a caveat. Okay. So first off, the word that comes to mind is momentum. What is in leadership, I feel like the most important thing you can do for people, if they’re working towards a goal or vision, is give them a sense of momentum or point out where they are gaining momentum. A lot of times what we do to a fault is like, Hey, you’re doing really good at this, Jeff. But you’re doing these 12 things wrong. And I think the key word here with my caveat would be is using the word and so Hey, Jeff, you’re doing really good at this section, two truths and a lie. And if you just made this small tweak, you could even take it to this level, and I’m building that momentum of constant improvement but I love it.
Jeff Winters 03:44
Abby Johnston, love truth, truth. Nice job. Very nice job. Um, this is everybody’s gonna agree with this, I think But Scott, yeah, this is gonna resonate with you. This is a truth of early entrepreneurship, actually versus early entrepreneurship, what people think it is. This is from I hope I’m getting this name right Xena serif, cancer scientist and founder. She says, I’m spending my morning collecting invoices for my accountant. I swear, building a company makes you grow up too fast. Guess what my next hire will be and let’s keep it a secret. I absolutely love this. All the founders who are listening to this know exactly what Xena is talking about. Entrepreneurship is not this. It’s not three cocktail lunches. It’s not leaving work whenever you want. It’s not all of this fun and glory. There’s a lot of it that spending your morning collecting invoices to give to your accountant and waiting to hire that bookkeeper. I think this is a truth with a capital T.
Scott Scully 04:48
Truth capital. T. Xena’s talking about something super important, but I hope the person that she’s on the road to hiring is actually a salesperson I hope she keeps doing the invoices for a while and goes and generates revenue first, but I couldn’t agree with her statement more. It’s
Eric Watkins 05:09
a truth. It’s a truth. Truth. I mean, I didn’t start my own company. But I think just in all the stories and sharing with you all, there’s just like, it’s just not all what it’s made up to be. And obviously, it’s paid off. But people see the glory and they don’t see the hours and hours and pain and suffering that we went through to get to this point.
Jeff Winters 05:29
It was the most painful part of my entrepreneurship journey is like getting people invoiced that was so counter to who I am as a human who was like, months late the account be like, did you guys generate any revenue this year? I was like, Yeah, of course. Where are the invoices?
Scott Scully 05:47
Revenue and Jeff scenario, but the invoices did not make
Jeff Winters 05:51
that happen. So a truth with a capital T. And now, unfortunately, on earth, a non truth or what some might call a lie, a lie, a lie. It’s a lie. And this one is this is a vicious lie. Thank you need to take this seriously. It’s a little bit of a long read. But it’s worth it.
Scott Scully 06:22
We need color lawyers,
Jeff Winters 06:23
Jamal. Jamal said this. There is a toxic idea in b2b sales, which has been around for ages. And it’s ruining the lives of sellers everywhere. And that toxic idea is that, quote, sales is a numbers game. The more emails calls, demos and meetings you produce, the more successful you will be. This is absolute BS. Sales is an impact game. Only high quality sales activity, move the needle. So take the time to research your audience before reaching out to them. Dig deeper into your customers business reality before demoing, help resolve messy customer experience issues before asking for the renewal. because sales is an impact game, not a numbers game. Okay, so what is Jamal do I don’t know is Jamal. I’m sure Jamal is a nice guy.
Scott Scully 07:27
Number of episodes back when I said I don’t like bad salespeople. Oh, no. Jamal might be one of those people. Look, half truth, half lie. Of course, it’s an impact game, but who’s doing all that damn work that he’s talking about before that, who’s making the calls, sending the emails, cleansing the data, figuring things out to determine, yes, this is a business that I want to talk to. And they’re qualified. There’s a lot of heavy lifting and a lot of work that goes into landing on somebody that makes sense to talk to and, you know, everybody wants another piece of software or the perfect data and it doesn’t exist, because if it did, we wouldn’t be in business.
Jeff Winters 08:09
I think the the lie here to me comes down to and Scott I agree with you is that if you as a business have the most impactful. I mean, like think of the most in the history of the universe, one sales activity, and one sales call, and one close deal, but boy, it is so impactful, it was the best it was the best, you’re still only going to get some amount of revenue. And so there’s at the end of that little rainbow of impact, you’re gonna have to do that some number of times to generate enough revenue to grow and sustain your business. So it becomes a numbers game even your impact game becomes a numbers game and if you spout off and people start just choosing impact over numbers and sales, then we’re going to have a lot of companies that aren’t grown you have
Scott Scully 09:01
a really good one really good sales conversation among and you’re gonna grow
Eric Watkins 09:07
if it’s not a numbers game, it’s a numbers game because you only have to fill four
Jeff Winters 09:14
so that is today’s due truths and a lie from LinkedIn. It’s a lie.
Scott Scully 09:21
I feel like when it gets super sensitive you’re gonna decide to leave the person’s last name out of it.
Jeff Winters 09:28
I am already doing that on the negative on the on the lies
Scott Scully 09:33
are you afraid he’ll come after you
Jeff Winters 09:36
know I just want to be you know, everybody’s doing their best and trying our job
Eric Watkins 09:40
is to just share it he’s just the sheriff. You just got to
Jeff Winters 09:43
just do what my job it’s
Eric Watkins 09:44
got a political position to keep them put them in jail.
Jeff Winters 09:48
Just doing my job.
Scott Scully 09:49
It’s it you have to be responsible and put good content on LinkedIn. That’s why you are the Content Cop. However, in your description today, I felt like you were a Have a farmer in the pastures taking out the weeds.
Jeff Winters 10:03
Take it out the weeds. Yeah, every every week, you’re gonna get a new analogy. This week, I’m a botanist. big promise. Yeah.
50 for 50
Scott Scully 10:10
Okay, we’re gonna get into our next 50 for 50. Again, 50 business growth tips, this section is is the 50 things that we think that you ought to do, no matter what, to make sure that your path is a smoother one. We’re on the second tip for the year. Again, I think this is going to be a sensitive one. Because, you know, kind of ties into what we’re talking about from, from an accountant bility standpoint feel like, accountability is at an all time low in business today. And my section is about giving people to gift of high expectations. I love my man, Nick Saban, I would suggest that there are a lot of times people don’t like playing at Alabama. But you know what they like, we’re in the championship ring playing in the NFL, or all the other things they’re probably doing in life, because he held them accountable to being the best human being performing at the highest level that that person can period. They may be running charities, leading a business, they may be a top salesperson, they’re playing in the NFL, they’re coaching at a high level, because he said, at Alabama, we’re a number one program, this is how we do it. If you don’t give me your best, you don’t get to be on the team period and a story. And I think that this is a mistake that we make in business. Like we hire people, and we give them a little bit too much leeway in performance. And this could even be they’re performing pretty good right? There. They’re doing okay, they’re getting by, but you know that this is a person that you brought in to take you to the next level. And that’s not what they’re doing. And most people don’t, maybe they don’t have the patience, or they don’t know how to do it, or or they maybe they don’t think it’s as important as it actually is to sit that person down and say, you know, Eric, I think that you’re doing some really good things. I remember when you came in. And I told you that I think that you were that guy that could actually take us to the next level. Although you’re doing some really good things, I think that if you added X, Y and Z, you could improve even more. What do you think, but we don’t do that. You know, because we get too busy. And if someone’s status quo, or checking the box or doing the job, we don’t go and try to push them to their next level. We try to do that a lot around here. And it’s uncomfortable, and people don’t always love it. But how many stories do we have of people that are doing amazing things here and out there in the world? Because we did say we want your best all the time and of story period.
Eric Watkins 12:59
I’ve stolen this page from your book growing up under your leadership. It’s something that has kind of like come naturally to me when I lead my team as well. And I think the most common mistake that I see, especially like young leaders starting out why do people get into leadership, oftentimes, it’s not money or whatever, they would have gone into sales or done something else. They got into leadership, because they want to help people, and you want to help people. And ultimately, if you want to help people you want to be liked. So then they get into the leadership position. And the first thing they want to do is like, how can I make my team like me as much as possible. And I see people making the mistake of growing towards each other, instead of growing with each other. Like we’re going to this new level. And I remember Scott sent me that one time. And it was probably early on when I was reporting to you. And you were just like, hey, here’s the deal. I like you, I believe in you. I think you’re capable of a ton. I’m going to help you get there, you’re not going to like me all the times on the way there. But someday you’re gonna look back, and you’re gonna be thankful for this experience. And you’re gonna be thankful for how hard I was on you along the way. And already, like it’s already true. And I think as a leader, you look back on the people you impacted. Do you want to look back and be like, I hope they all really liked me and think I was really nice, or do you want to literally have their lives in a different spot than they would have been? Otherwise?
Scott Scully 14:24
I had two goofy scenarios and I know I’ve said them both before in my life early on as a kid. One was mowing the yard. No matter what I did. My dad got home, told me to come out in the yard and pointed something out that I didn’t do. Right I missed a sliver of grass. I didn’t trim around one tree and he pulled me out there and like you’re capable of doing better if you’re going to do something, do it right. Do it at the high This level. And another thing is I’ll never forget it. I was working for an HVAC company. And it was you know, my boss didn’t have a project for me that day. So it was raining out. And I was in the garage cleaning one of the work trucks, it was a white work truck, there was tar all over the bottom, you know, by the wheels and by the bumpers. And then he gave me this special cleaner, scrubbing, just like really working at it. And I actually got a lot of the tar off. I mean, I’m like, I’m dripping. And he came in on multiple occasions. He’s like, Man, I thought you, like were a hard worker, I thought like, you could actually get this truck, way cleaner than this, like keep scrubbing, like put a little muscle into it. He did that throughout the whole day first, because he was nice enough, like I was working there, he could have sent me home and not paid me right. So he made me clean the damage for 810 hours. But then at the end of the day, he came back and said man that trucks never looked so clean, I just wanted to show you that if you put even more into it that you could do an even better job and get even better product. And it was like one of those, I don’t know one of those Karate Kid Miyagi, some things. But I’ll never, ever forget that one day, and he was right. It was hard. But the truck looked a lot better. And I just learned an important lesson that I try to live by. And you have to expect the most out of your people almost to an uncomfortable level. And if you are best friends with everybody on your team, you’re not doing it right.
Jeff Winters 16:40
No, you’re not to give everyone a frame of reference. I love those stories. By the way.
Scott Scully 16:45
It’s my goofy childhood,
Jeff Winters 16:48
to give everyone a frame of reference. And Eric sort of borrowed this from me like, as a leader, you have many jobs. And when I tell my team is one of your jobs as a leader, is to get as much out of each person on your team, as their mother thought they were capable of you have not failed, unless you have you failed if you haven’t done that. And there’s lots of different ways to do it. There’s lots of different recipes for each individual, based on who they are. But one thing that is consistent in every recipe for every individual is if you want to get as much out of them as their mother thought they were capable of, then you must hold them accountable. It is a gift to hold them accountable. You feel like just that little change of a word, that turn of a phrase, if you feel that’s your mission as a leader, to get as much out of someone as their mother thought they were capable of that’s your responsibility that the world has handed you. You look at them and you look at work and you look at leading them, differently, I would try to incorporate that if you can, as a frame of reference.
Eric Watkins 17:54
I like that. I think ultimately it comes down to you’re doing them a disservice. If you’re not doing this, you’re you’re going to like I don’t know if it’s today, this month, next month, a year from now, five years from now, you are shortchanging them of what they could do with their lives overall.
Mining for Growth Gold
Scott Scully 18:13
Nice. All right. It is now time to go mining for growth, gold
Eric Watkins 18:19
mining for growth. Go get your shovels out, do you get your shovels, I got my shovel out, I got my pickaxe, I’ve been mining and mining for this growth gold. And this is a good one. And it’s simple. And I bet a lot of people overlook it. We’re talking about email today. And when you hear about email, you hear, personalize, you got to personalize. And when they say that typically they’re talking about personas and the person that you’re talking to, which I agree with. And that’s impactful. But the biggest tip that I have for you today is mentioning something local in the emails that you’re sending. It’s very simple. It sounds basic, but a lot of people don’t do it. And this is a way to personalize without the creepy personalization. Without like, I Know What You Did Last Summer. So I’m going to put it in the email. And we looked across all of our, all of our email sequences and campaigns, what we’re doing and we looked at all the things that we had in common, and in our top five sequences that we were running. Every one of them had something local going on in the email, and I have a great example. I’m driving into work today. I haven’t stared at a billboard. Probably ever, but for some reason I noticed this today. T Mobile said, Hey, in St. Clair, we now service all of St. Clair County. I have never paid any attention to a T mobile ad ever. But the fact that they had my county that I lived in on that side, it got my attention and our inboxes are a lot like billboards. We see a lot of messages every single day. And the localization is the key. Is it the easy way really easy way to get the attention.
Jeff Winters 20:04
I love
Scott Scully 20:04
you’re kind of a contractor of this give us a little heat.
Jeff Winters 20:09
We stumbled on this. And it was, I think the campaign that we stumbled upon it years ago was something that I was like Keep Austin weird was like saying in Austin, and we were working with a staffing firm. And I remember writing this was years ago, when I was writing the emails for all the clients. I said, you know, what if we sent out emails to prospects in Austin, saying that we were the staffing firm that was going to help you fill your positions and Keep Austin weird, flew off the shelf, it flew off the shelf. I think there’s a lot of talk about personalization, meaning in an email, I’m going to talk about your kid’s name your dog’s name, what’s bored you like I’m gonna do a ton of research and spent a lot of time it doesn’t do it for me and I don’t like it. But people connect you don’t feel like up a people connect to where they live period. And I know given remote work, it can be tough to find, but just look suspend disbelief on this. People connect to where they live. Number one, there’s different levels of pride based on whichever city you’re in. But like people connect to like interesting things about where they are not the weather, like something fun or kitschy or different or interesting. That’s number one. But point number two and probably more important when you’re sending in a sales email. Job Number one, don’t make it seem like a sales email, like make it seem like it was sent by a person to another person. Connecting with something local is an easy way to do that. Keep Austin weird, perfect example. Good. This is a home run tip.
Scott Scully 21:35
I love it. All right. Well, now that Austin is weird, and the businesses there have a ton more leads, what sales tips to warehouse,
Tales from Sales
Jeff Winters 21:43
this is a sales tip mixed with disagreement. So everywhere I look in sales, in terms of tips, it just seems like all of the experts and all the consultants are focused from a sales perspective on what you call the discovery portion of the sales call, which is the portion of the sales call where the salesperson asks questions, often in an like a trite, bad way to try to uncover the need of a prospect so that they can then leverage that need throughout the sales call and sales process. gave me an example. Scott Angeles just say for the sake of example, I I’m a plow company so during the winter, I ensure that your corporate parking lot is no snow on it when it when it snows. And I know that people in Southern California are gonna relate to this. So Scott, you know, what would your I know you have a business and you have 500 people like, I bet that when it snows you probably need those people to park still right? Yeah, I need them to park. Yeah. Well, and if if there’s snow in the parking lot, that probably makes it pretty, pretty difficult to Okay. It makes it difficult, like okay, all right, fine. Yes, we will get ultimately we’ll get to the point where I will say, yes, if there’s too much snow in the parking lot, I have a problem works disrupted, it’s a pain in the ass. You’ve got me, okay. And that portion of the call is pretty important. Let me tell you, what’s way more important to me. The tone that the sales rep uses throughout the sales call, particularly asking questions and at the end of the call, because if sales reps spent 1/10, as much time working on their tone and not sounding salesy, as they did working on the discovery questions that they asked which, by the way, hot take, most business owners hate after three of them, if they’re annoying, we know what you’re doing. Stop it. I guess you have to have some information. But like, Don’t go overboard. And like the consultant world has now gone way overboard with 57 discovery questions and we all hate it, we’ve muted you, we’ve muted ourselves, we’re doing something else. Work on your tone, because that’s the key. The key to your sales call is not raising sales, resistance not increased, not not making prospects that are being sold. And you do that through your tone. You do that through not going to salesperson voice not having commission breath, being relaxed, asking questions as a human quick example, and then we’ll move on. In today’s world, we all know that there are a lot of decision makers in a sales process. So often when we’re all on sales calls, you’re talking to someone and then they have to go take that information to someone else to get the deal done. Here’s an example of bad Tom. Yeah, Jeff, you know, I I have to go talk to my partner Scott. Scott’s really involved in the decision and then we’ll, we’ll figure it out, but I’m really interested. Okay, great. Well, what’s God gonna think of this? Well, I think you know, Scott’s probably gonna like well, how do you know he’s gonna like it? Well, I think he’s gonna like it because he likes stuff like this. Okay, well, what do you think you’ve got to make the call on this one? I don’t know, Jeff, you know, you and I just met 18 minutes ago, so I don’t have a timeframe from versus This, take this. Here’s the prospect. You know, I got a partner, Scott and Scott’s involved in this. Yeah, no, I totally get that. And I knows, in this world, we’ve all got partners and bosses and I got bosses and partners and totally get it. But do you think that Sky’s something that Scott’s going to be excited about? Yeah. Oh, that’s cool. Why? Well, Scott, see here the difference in that town. That’s a different sales call, I’m getting the same information. But it’s a completely different sales call, don’t work on Discovery, work on tone, gold,
Eric Watkins 25:34
gold. I have an example two, I just did a I’ve done two recent sales presentations for software that will not be named. And I had two different experiences. Well, like being in sales, like I know, I know, discovery. So every time they get to discovery to your point, I’m like, Hey, don’t discover me, here’s what you need to know. Like, here. Here’s what you need to know. And the one rep was like, oh, man, I get it. You know, you get it. Like you’ve you’ve been around, you obviously know, sales. He’s like, let me if I asked you a question that’s off base, let me know, I’m going to try to I’ll probably ask a couple here and there to get a feel for it. But if I’m off base, let me know. The other one was completely like, Okay, I’m gonna go into the list of questions that I’m used to ask. And then like a serious tone. And it’s just it completely changed the the trajectory of the call. The other call the bad call, I’m like, how quickly can I get off this? So I’m, I’m lying to him. I’m telling him whatever I can do, like, yeah, I got a partner that’s in Alaska that’s like, No, I’m just trying to get off that call. And the other one, I’m like, is this a human being that I’m talking to? Yep. So I couldn’t agree more.
Scott Scully 26:44
I’m not buying from somebody that isn’t enthusiastic about what they’re selling. And that can be done because someone has the natural personality to sound enthusiastic, or that can be done with words, right. Like, I’m excited, because that’s who they are. Or, gosh, I’m really excited to talk to you today, Jeff, because I know that you’ve got a huge lot with lots of employees, and we’re coming up on the winter. And there’s gonna be a lot of snow, a lot of snow projected, and I just want your people to have a place to park.
Jeff Winters 27:15
That tone is so much better than what you owe it, you know? Yeah. And I think I think what anyone that’s the right there’s no I’m not listening to that going. Oh, my, I’ve got my now I’m feeling sales pressure immediately when I seals feel sales pressure. I’m moving way back. Right. Oh, sales pressure in that time. When I
Scott Scully 27:32
tell you 500 People, well, what are you going to do if they can’t park? Right? In a three
Jeff Winters 27:37
year life raft and you were drowning? Would you take up? Yeah, okay, fine. No, I would, you know, I
Eric Watkins 27:42
would Yeah, I think the important thing is like, be yourself because, like, people are all on this spectrum. And they’re a little bit different. Like, for me, like if I were doing it, my goal would be to have such a connection with the person already where I’m like, Jeff, are you? Are you getting off this call? And you’re gonna go talk to Scott, I’m never gonna, like, are you? I never like, but that’s the like, be yourself. If that’s your personality. Great. Do that. If you’re more excited, be that, like, but don’t be a robot.
Scott Scully 28:11
But let me ask do you and Scott have shovels? Yeah. Because how are you gonna move the How
Eric Watkins 28:16
are you gonna dig for growth gold if you don’t have any shovels?
Jeff Winters 28:19
And that was this week’s tales from sales. Oh, my God, I love it days from
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 28:26
Eric. You know, I like this last section. And I think that in between Episode One and Episode Two, we we decided to affectionately call it to do
Eric Watkins 28:38
or not to, to do or not to do that is the question. That is the question. The question straight from Shakespeare’s lips. himself. He’d be so proud. Yes. So my topic today and I’m interested your opinions, holiday cards to do or not to do. And here’s what I’ll say. I’m not married yet. I don’t have kids. I do have a dog. And some people like that, that that’s something that people are doing. I think it’s a little too early to be doing it before that. But excetera I get a lot of holiday cards. I don’t look at a lot of holiday cards, I get them. You know, it’s just kind of one of those things where you end up with 1520 And you’re like, I don’t where do I put these things? What do I do? But it’s a nice touch, like up on the personal level. But from a business standpoint, it can be super impactful. But what do you think, Jeff? What do you think about holiday cards? What’s your take here
Scott Scully 29:33
for you might not get any based on your answers.
Jeff Winters 29:36
I’m fine. receive them. I don’t feel one way or the other. I don’t. I come home, they’re they’re up on the board. It’s wonderful. I’d love to see your family, your dogs, your kids your fun vacation you went on. I don’t like doing them. Because it’s a very stressful event in my house. You know, it’s the most it’s one of the most stressful days of the year. Is family picture day. family picture day. In my house is holiday card creation day also. So it’s double, it’s double trouble. And it’s, you know, weeks in advance, I gotta, you know, soup cleanse and then and then after that we gotta go to work, you know, matching sweater Yeah, forest, it’s 90 degrees, I got to pretend like it’s December it’s sunrise, you know, we gotta get the right angle, you know, and if to like five like this is they’re not quite it’s a very stressful note. So I don’t, I don’t like that part of it at all, period, so I am a not to do for myself. But kidding aside, I like seeing that like my friends, kids and that I don’t talk to that often. That kind of thing. So
Scott Scully 30:40
my kids that I’ve put through an assembly line of licking stamps and signing cards would say, not to do. But, you know, I think all kidding aside, if you’re a business and you have important partners or customers, you should do this. It’s a perfect opportunity to thank them for their business, acknowledge the partnership, let them know how much you care about them. Not everybody does it. So it’s that just another thing that you could do to stand above the crowd. You’ve got people that are calling on your very important customers as we speak, trying to steal, steal them away from you. So you might as well love on him during the holidays. And just depending on how many customers you have, you got to find the right process to do this, that’s for sure.
Jeff Winters 31:28
Yeah. And it’s like what doesn’t make sense to me as you spend all this time, energy effort and stress on your personal holiday card that well, maybe maybe you all different, it doesn’t generate me any revenue, the personal holiday card, it costs me and then you spend no time or thought or even think or even send out holiday cards to customers that you value it that that doesn’t make any
Scott Scully 31:50
I don’t think that the picture matters, if I whether it was from one of our vendors, I guess, or partners or whether it was from somebody that I knew personally, I guess if they sent me a card, I think that I would feel acknowledged that’s nice, maybe a little personal note, no form letters. I don’t need to know that Johnny got three promotions last year and Sally’s in her fourth year. You know, Texas Tech and you know a new little ones on the way a dog survived the you know, leg removal. And you know, you’ve been married for 12 and a half years. And you don’t know
Eric Watkins 32:30
how you can just go to Facebook these right? We don’t
Scott Scully 32:33
need form letters, that’s
Jeff Winters 32:34
for sure. What about the negative for like, tell me all the bad shit. That’s gonna
Eric Watkins 32:38
be a nice time. Yeah, definitely
Scott Scully 32:40
actually a great new social media channel.
Jeff Winters 32:43
You know, Billy suck because yeah, Billy’s at TCU got suspended for the second semester.
Eric Watkins 32:49
He’s coming home. He’s coming out with a lot more.
Jeff Winters 32:52
Good news. You’re gonna see a lot more villian. Scott son
Scott Scully 32:55
was just tardy for the fifth. Things are great.
Eric Watkins 33:00
They’ve actually moved class start time back. Right. So McEwen can make it on time.
Jeff Winters 33:05
Steve, my son plays high school soccer. He had an own goal last week. big bummer for the family.
Scott Scully 33:14
Mackenzie scored on the opposing team’s goal again. Well, we love her.
Eric Watkins 33:20
I think overall, it’s hard to do. As a business, it’s a for sure to do on the personal level. It’s like yeah, to do i do like seeing them. I should say that I’d be like, I’m gonna I’m gonna backtrack a little bit. There’s some.
Scott Scully 33:34
It takes a lot of work. So you got to find the right process and but get them out the door if you’re, if you’re a business because you want to acknowledge your customers. another awesome episode of the growth show. We’ve got even more goodness coming your way in the weeks to come. As always, like, subscribe, share, do all those things. get the message out and give us some feedback. Let us know what you like. Let us know what other things you’d like us to talk about. Have a great week. Let’s grow.
Jeff Winters 34:06
Let’s grow let’s grow.
Businesses are either growing or dying right now. It’s time to get back into the weeds of your business to ensure you’re not one of the casualties. Staying connected can help you make better decisions, maintain healthy relationships with customers and vendors, improve customer service, and ultimately, stay relevant and ahead of the competition.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to the growth show. You know, guys that I was thinking over the last week, I think we are the #1 source in the planet for Business Growth tips, from zero to 50.
Eric Watkins 00:15
The number one source the number
Scott Scully 00:17
one source on the planet, we are ready for growth.
Jeff Winters 00:20
Yeah, very hot right now.
Scott Scully 00:21
You know, we’ve got we’ve established a grow nation, there’s a there’s an audience out there that is yearning for this advice. They just want their path to be a little bit easier. We just want to be a part of the ride. Eric, how was your last week?
Eric Watkins 00:36
My last week was great.
Scott Scully 00:38
Good. You got some good things to share? Oh, I’ve
Eric Watkins 00:40
been digging for some growth gold. And I am excited about what I’m about to share today.
Scott Scully 00:45
Nice. Before we get to that, as always, we get to start with Two Truths and A Lie Two Truths and A Lie from LinkedIn. Sheriff of LinkedIn Sheriff Winters, share pointers, has combed through, [self proclaimed
Eric Watkins 01:06
Sherrif],
Scott Scully 01:07
pasture of content,
Jeff Winters 01:09
self proclaimed, but it’s been notarized. It has been by the by the community. So
Scott Scully 01:14
so far, you’ve been successful that do that sort of thing. You’ve put some serious content creators in cuffs, that’s for sure. Did Jamal call?
Jeff Winters 01:25
The reason we have this and that LinkedIn needs a sheriff is because at one point, LinkedIn was a place where all leaders, CEOs, managers, individual contributors could come and get great, perfect advice. And it was pristine. And now anyone can say whatever they want on LinkedIn. And we have some fun with it. But as I say, every week there’s a seriousness to it, because people will take the advice they get on LinkedIn, go back to their teams go back to their jobs, go back to their companies and put it into play. And sometimes they should. And sometimes they should. And what do we call the times they shouldn’t Eric, we call it two truths and a lie, liars. Let’s start with the truths. It’s in reference to motivation. And it comes from Johnny kinrara. I’m saying that right, Johnny. But I really liked this one in reference to motivation. There’s no one size fits all, the path to feeling a certain way, looks different for everyone. And this is in reference to motivation, a leaders job is to find that path for each member of their team. Scott, you talk about this all the time, like making sure you really lean into the people know what motivates them. I think too many think that one of two things. And I’ve seen this recently, which is why this top of mind for me. A lot of leaders think what motivates them motivates others. Everybody should be as motivated by whatever as I am. And that is really bad. Because then you lead everyone the way you want to be led. And then you only get a team of us. And you’ll have a team of us. You got a team of everybody else. And I think Johnny is spot on here the leaders job is to find the path for each member of their team. As it relates to motivation. I love this.
Scott Scully 03:23
It takes time. And I think that’s why people don’t do it. Right. Again, we’ve talked before about the laundry list of 15 or 20 things I have to do as a manager and I get to those and I miss some of the most important things: which is knowing what why Jeff’s here. What’s his journey look like? What’s he want to accomplish? Where’s he want to end up? What’s important to him? And if you know that then Jeff’s a higher performer, he’s happier. You’re looking at me like God, I wish he would do that. Sometimes.
Eric Watkins 03:54
You would ask me, I was you know, my
Jeff Winters 03:56
journey. Did he? He texted me good job the other day. Got a good job. It was a two in the morning, good job, but made my day.
Scott Scully 04:04
I save them for really important time periods,
Eric Watkins 04:06
really important. I would agree 100%. With Johnny, I think everybody is 100% different. And I love what you said, Jeff, because every new leader struggles with this, like they get in the position and they like throw their hands up in the air. And Why won’t people work as hard as I work? Well, if they did, we wouldn’t have leaders. Everybody just be a bunch of individual contributors running around. Like that’s how you make your money in leadership. And I would I would say the one thing I would add here is don’t ask people. Hey, what motivates you? Oh, it’s you never get the answer. I think that the two ways I would do it is I would draw on past experience. So I would say what is something, what’s a time in your past where you’ve been super motivated and super fired up? And tell me about that. Like, what were some of the things you were doing? What was your leader doing? And you’ll figure out like, what was it that really got them excited about that experience? And then ask them the other way, what was one time Um, we were just super demotivated, and you’re kind of discouraged, and you know you were doing something and you just didn’t really have a lot of purpose to it. And then you avoid that. And then I think that’s a lot better way to do it than just asking someone how they’re motivated. Truth, truth, truth,
Jeff Winters 05:15
truth. Next, I think this is from Brooks Van Norman, from Brooks Van Norman, this is as topical. As it comes right now. Brooks said, I once left a company, my manager never said goodbye. Another time, I left a different company and the CEO called me. He asked how he could help and thanked me for my contribution. True leaders play the long game. I think this is topical in the world. And I think it’s very important for us acutely, as of late in the world, because as we know, a lot of people changing jobs, a lot of people coming and going, and how you treat people on the way out is really important, especially for the people who are still there. But number two, it’s also really important because it opens the door for people to come back. And we’ve had some incredible people who have left generally, like, kind of briefly to go see and explore their opportunities, and then they come back, that doesn’t happen if on the way out the door. They’re getting hammered, and people aren’t talking to them. And that kind of thing,
Scott Scully 06:18
I think is a truth. And, you know, we wouldn’t be where we’re at today without some of those pretty powerful people coming back and even share sharing with us what they’ve learned on the streets and other places, right? You can be a better business by having people want to come back to you at some point and sharing their new knowledge, you know, their experiences. I think that there’s something that I think could be a takeaway here, one, one simple thing that you could put into play to help with this. And that’s an exit interview. And a lot of people don’t do it. But if you sit down and you find out what they liked, you know, what they think we should work on? Maybe some of the reasons why they’re exploring another career. And and just, you know, what, what, what can we share with others, from their experience, just just have a real, nice, honest exit than I think you can. One of the ways you could leave the door open, great point.
Eric Watkins 07:18
This is a truth. But this is a double truth, if you have a young workforce, especially ones that come to your company straight out of college, because it’s the only experience that they’ve had. So the grass is always greener. And what we’ve had with a lot of what we call our boomerangs, right people coming back, is, you know, they go out there, and it’s not quite what, what it was made up to be, right. And I think if you burn that bridge on the way out, then you’re never going to get those people. And, you know, if you’re playing the long game, you plan to be in business for a long time. You should do that.
Scott Scully 07:50
I think I’ve learned here, too, right? You get, you’re in the battlegrounds, everybody’s working hard. You know, you you want to see people that are loyal to the business and to the customers. And sometimes you can get hurt, especially in the beginning stages of starting your business, when you’re all really in the grind. And everybody knows each other intimately. And when someone’s deciding to leave at that point in time, it can be a little bit more sensitive, or hurt a little bit more than when you’re a little bit larger. But I think I’ve learned here because this isn’t something that maybe I would have agreed with, right? Like they’re choosing to leave that would have been 20 years ago. Me like, screw them, they left don’t let him back. You know, and I feel like I’m I’m growing in this area and think thank God again, because we’ve got some really really good people back on the bus driving us to down roads, we couldn’t have gone down without them.
Jeff Winters 08:52
Truth, truth truth. Uh oh, this one kills me. You’re looking at Scott, you’re gonna hate this. So Matt says, If you hate being told what to do, you will love being an entrepreneur. No, what? What? Oh, I see. So if I don’t like being told what to do. That’s the qualification to be an entrepreneur.
Scott Scully 09:22
Right? What’s Matts last night?
Jeff Winters 09:23
I can’t say this. I don’t say Oh, and I’m not gonna say but done that.
Scott Scully 09:26
There’s a double lie you need to say the last night because people do
Jeff Winters 09:29
that though. They go they’re sitting in their job. They go I don’t like my job. I don’t like having a manager. I know what I should do. I should go. I should go, take my entire livelihood and we love risk and start a business because I don’t like having a boss. That’s what I’ll do
Scott Scully 09:44
you know what the real lie is what? Hold on. Let me tell you, who tells you what to do. The banker, the accountant.
Jeff Winters 09:53
Cost the employees, the customer
Scott Scully 09:55
the market. The How about if you want to be told what to do all the Time go be an entrepreneur. Matt, you should you deserve to have your last name shared
Eric Watkins 10:05
highs, lies. Agree. I feel like that was the first thing that came to mind is, you know, the, like people say it all the time. It’s like, you know, Eric, you have so many people reporting to you like you get a, you know, you get to make all the decisions that I was like, I am constantly weighing what 1500 clients think and what 500 People think like every single day, I have 2000 direct or bosses in my opinion. And it’s, it’s a lot,
Jeff Winters 10:34
becoming an entrepreneur is a wonderful thing. Yeah. And if that’s what you want, there could be no better thing for me. Nothing better for you, Scott, I bet nothing better. But it is not a decision to be taken lightly at all. You have to want it so much worse than you think you need to want it because it’s so much harder than you could possibly imagine if you’ve never done it before, and not wanting to have a boss isn’t a reason to do it. And it ain’t going to inspire you long term to do the work you’re going to have to do.
Scott Scully 11:03
And if that’s why Matt decided to start his business, he’s going to be crawling on hands and knees and whining and like a baby back to his boss real quick like, because he’s going to be told what to do way more times than his boss told him what to do. And he isn’t going to be paid for a long time. And he’s making the ultimate sacrifice and putting a kazillion hours in. Matt, stop being a pussy.
Jeff Winters 11:25
I got you fired up on that one. I don’t like math. And that is another segment of two truths and a Lie from LinkedIn. .
50 for 50
Scott Scully 11:36
You were right. By the way, thank you. Well, we might as well keep the controversy going. Because in today’s 50, for 50, people, they’re not gonna like this one. Get back in your business asshole. I know, you just got done reading a book, where it said work on your business, not in your business. You guys ever heard that? Before? I’ve heard
Jeff Winters 12:04
that before. It’s in the book, it’s in every book.
Scott Scully 12:07
And the belief is that if someone at a high level is too much in a weeds, then they can’t see the forest through the trees and you just can’t lead. And what I would suggest is that you don’t know your business, and you’re going to drive your damn business off a cliff, if you don’t understand your customers, your teams, the processes they’re using. I believe in the opposite. You guys know we all do this, one of my favorite stories was a number of years back when, when I was with one of our managers on a team called the pirates. And I’d kind of dropped everything dropped all my duties, to sit there with that team of incredible people, a lot of them still here. You know, we had so much fun and talk so much vision about things that we wanted to do that there are a lot of those people that are here leading our company forward, and I love it. But for 30 days, we got together. By the way, this team, although full of talent, at that particular point in time was in last place. Okay. And I got with that team. And we just talked about who they were, and where they wanted to be. And like we just owned being the number one team. And in that 30 days, I saw so much about our processes about how we were training, how our managers were motivating people, like, you know, what vision they understood versus where we were actually going. And I actually did that a couple more times. So I’d spent a good 90 days doing that on different teams. And it was my favorite time probably in our existence. And I learned a ton about that. And I know that you guys both do that. Now it’s like, what I’m recommending is there is there is a point where you could be so removed that you don’t have the ability to actually be the visionary. Because you don’t know what’s going on. You don’t understand where the business is at today. You don’t understand the changes in the market, what your customers want. You know how the climate has changed. I’m saying Get back in your business, sit and sit on the production line. Call customers, be an account manager, do some sales presentations, build a list? Get on the roof, right? Fix a computer, whatever it is that you do, do it and do it often. Get back in your business. Controversial and I know a lot of people don’t believe it. A lot of
Jeff Winters 14:48
people don’t believe it. And I think a reason a lot of people who might believe it, don’t want to believe it. And make excuses not to do it is because they’ve become a leader. I become a leader above it. And leadership is so fun, I get to have meetings. And then I have some time to think, whiteboard strategy, they do so much strategy. As a leader, I love strategy. Without the people without the people, I do it by myself, I do the strategy I get to read, I get to think that does, that does sound good. There’s only one small problem. If you spend your days that way, you get way disconnected from the business. And it’s, by the way, it’s hard. Because you don’t want to go back and pick up a number and be accountable to it. Like you hold your people accountable. You don’t want to hear the unhappy customers with your product or service, or the product or service that your team is leading or managing. That’s hard. That’s icky. And it sucks. And that’s why you got to do it.
Eric Watkins 15:48
I think as you move up into an organization and your organization scales and gets bigger, the word that is most important is velocity, you have to be able to move a company in a direction quickly. And the number one enemy of that is credibility. If people don’t feel like you’re credible, if people don’t feel like you really know what’s going on, they’re going to resist change, they’re going to move even slower than they would otherwise. And like it Scott, in your situation, what you were able to do is like, Okay, I went on the floor, I saw it, I did it better than anybody else. Here’s what I saw, here’s what we should do. There’s no questions. It’s like, Alright, let’s do it. Let’s go forward, I saw it work, let’s make it happen. Versus oh, let’s sit in the office. And let’s think about this. Let’s really make sure we’re making the right decision. Or back when I did it. However, many years ago, like this is what we did. Well, it’s different. So it’s like being on the ground floor is super important.
Scott Scully 16:44
One of my favorite stories. I know that Eric likes me to bring this up, but I do a lot is when he went into the partner sales manager role, where he was leading a bunch of SDRs. And he came out of an operational position. And he hadn’t been on the phone yet. But he immediately got on the phone, made fun of himself sucked for a while was really bad. But they loved it. They didn’t even care that he was bad. They they loved that he would actually do it with them. Right in there in the trenches. Well, and as you would imagine, he very quickly became very good at it. Right? Which that which then even led to more credibility. But that doesn’t happen. He doesn’t go on that team and that specific example and just run it having never done it having a lack of understanding in, in how to run the team, how to make the calls, how to overcome objections, all that stuff that he got in there and worked through, then he could he could help the team. I think, you know, the military is a perfect example of that. Right? There are. I don’t know if there’s a stronger team, right. And these people are at war, and they have a leader in the trenches with them. And that person is not like, hey, jump out of the foxhole and go like attack, like they’re in it with them doing it with them. This is just as important.
Eric Watkins 18:17
I think the key word here and you use Spark this until that story is like vulnerability, like the reason people don’t do this is probably because they don’t want to make a fool out of themselves. Right? Like, I’m the CEO. I’m the president. I’m the VP. I like what if I go there, and I can’t make a cold call or can’t do whatever, like, who cares, they don’t care if you’re good at it, they care that you’re in there with them, seeing what they’re going through.
Jeff Winters 18:40
And I share a real life example this, this happened to me unfortunately, last week, unfortunately, slash unfortunately. So I recently took over a sales team. And part of the sales team’s job is to self source some deals, so to call and get their own appointments. And I the first I think it’s my second day, I said give me the headset, I’ll get an appointment. Immediately this guy, you know, pushes the button and the ring and I go Please don’t pick up Mary Blum and I gave her the spiel. And I’m like getting through it and everyone is looking at me, I’m like, I got the headset on. I’m uncomfortable sweating. And she gives me an objection and I fold like a chair. Okay, sounds good. Talk to you later. And like, and I look up and they’re all like, What the hell was that? Where did you learn how to do that? I was like, oh, and and you know, we kidded about it and they’re like, get out this and that we I could have definitely done it differently. But afterwards, three, four of them came up to me like Hey, I know that was stupid and like whatever. Um, so that was so cool. You did that like that you would do that, that you would pick up the phone and make yourself source dial make a cold call as awesome. Thanks for doing that. That’s what matters. Not that I’ve been. Yeah, no Mary’s objection.
Eric Watkins 20:00
Right, I did the same thing after you told me that story is funny. I was in a PPM training, who are best cold callers in the building. And I’m going through a mock intro. And I was trying to tell them of like how to take this new approach. And I just blanked it was like, Well, shit, I completely forgot what I was about to tell you give me a second here that I had to pause for a little bit, and then it came to me. But I think they like they want you to be human. They don’t want you to be like, ya know, some invincible person
Scott Scully 20:30
that don’t ask somebody to do something that you won’t do. Yep. Period. And a story. Again, this is another one of those 50 things. Yeah, like if we started again, we’d be in the weeds, I guess, quote, unquote, but we’d never get out of the weeds at some level, because you always have to understand what’s going on. Next topic, remind them for some more gold ore
Mining for Growth Gold
Eric Watkins 20:58
mining for some growth gold. So this topic is going to be around SEO is going to be around SEO on your website. And this topic specifically is about the importance and investing in local search. So many of your competitors are already doing this, which is putting them one step ahead of you by default, they get customers that you miss out on because in today’s world, it doesn’t matter how good your businesses, if they can’t find you, it just doesn’t matter. That’s why SEO and website is so important. So to test this, all of you should go and you should search your service and your metro area. So we would search marketing in St. Louis. Now we’re nationwide, so not as applicable. But for some of you who serve a certain area, it in Knoxville, for example. If you’re not on the first page, you are missing business today. Today, today, you are missing business. And why this is also so important. Is Google. This day and age, a lot of people are looking on mobile, everybody’s not on their computer, and mobile prioritizes. Local search first. Pretty simple. So what do you need to do? You’re out there, you’re like, Okay, that makes sense. I looked at I looked this up, we’re not doing well, what should I do? First of all, you need to have a verified Google My Business page, got to have a verified page. Second, you need five, at least five solid reviews of your business. And then this is a big part that people overlook is unique consistency and how your business shows up by name, phone number, address, and URL and how you appear on those local listings and directories. Yeah, and directories like like just those simple steps. If you’re not maximizing your potential there, you are missing out on business, someone in your market right now is looking for your services and can’t find you.
Jeff Winters 22:52
I remember it clears day when somebody from our marketing team, you know, we’re going to get quite a few websites here. And someone told him I felt like such a fool said why are we not coming up for Google Marketing in St. Louis. He said, It’s because your address is different. All over the web are wack we moved a couple of times we didn’t have consistency. And that was the that was the thing that did I’m so bought into this, this is this is a absolutely must do drop whatever you’re doing, do it today. It’s an easy fix. simple fix, not easy. Not easy, but you got to do it, especially if you’re predominantly a local vendor. Oh, you’re servicing a metro and this is table stakes.
Scott Scully 23:38
This is the first step in your SEO strategy. Then you can create a bunch of content and in grow your keywords with other strategies paid or organic content but you got to get your local, accurate. And if you don’t know how to do it, you can google how to do it. Or, or get a partner there’s, you know, multiple companies in your local market that should be able to help you with this. And these tips are getting more leads. They’re sitting for front of more prospects. How about some stories from sales
Tales from Sales
Jeff Winters 24:14
tales? From say, tale or from sales gives you the alliteration, but tales from sales gives you the rhyme. There you go. You’re you know what rhymes are? There’s simple rhymes are simple. Children love rhymes, because they’re simple and they’re fun. So I’m gonna give you a tip today. Just do this today. This is the easiest tip you’re ever going to hear on any relevant business Show podcast. This is it for your sales team. And it goes along with Scott’s get out of your office. Get off yourself for your sales team. If you add just another person to a sales call. The data suggests if you’ve more than one person, seller plus another person at your company didn’t even really matter who it is. your win rate goes Up to 250% Plus, wow, just by having one other person on the call, your win rate goes up 250% plus. And you could sit here go, of course it does. But you know what, that’s not happening. And you know why? Because sales directors and sales managers and sales VPS don’t want to do it. They don’t want to get back into the business and beyond sales calls, because they used to be on sales calls, because they were a sales rep. And now they’re a sales manager. And they can listen to call recordings and tell people how to be better on sales calls. Stop doing that. If you’re a CEO, if you’re a head of sales, if you’re a sales manager, heck, if you’re a really talented rep, be on more calls, with other sales reps, or with sales reps, period, it will completely change your sales number, your sales productivity, it is a huge winner, we’ve gone to this, specifically very recently, where our sales VPS, we’ve given them fewer reps, and therefore they have more time to be what we call rikes should say what is called the second voice. So they’ll go second voice a call. Our close rates are up 30% since we started this strategy, 30% Because but not exclusively, but in my opinion, has a lot to do with it. Second voice calls the data as a winner 250% increase in win rates, you could do it today, go have people on the sales calls,
Scott Scully 26:29
right? No matter who number two is, it’s so much easier to to be there and not be the one leading the meeting and read the person and hear things that the person steering is not hearing all the time. I plus you have a lot of times different personalities, maybe one person connects to the prospect in a more powerful way than you do. There’s just so many reasons. But you can if you’re not the one leading the sales presentation, you can just evaluate and hear a lot of things that that are going to be pretty powerful to close when you agree. I mean,
Jeff Winters 27:11
oh my gosh. Yes. And Scott, I mean, you’ve talked about this before, but just touch on it briefly. Not before, but you’ve talked to me about it, especially with new sales reps.
Scott Scully 27:19
Yeah. That well, they’re so hell bent on getting a message out. Right? And when do I ask a question? Or what probing questions do I ask? They’re not confident enough yet to sit in the pocket, and really, truly listen, and see what is going on here? What is going on. And if another person’s on the call there, they’re gonna catch something that that new rep would have just blown right past.
Eric Watkins 27:49
I love that I use like the football analogy, like when a new rep starts like they’re running the play, right? But the the experience reps or the VP or whatever, they’re reading the defense, like they’re actually seeing what’s going on. And then, you know, and I think I like we made these calls, like when I had sales before you transitioned over, I’d get on a call at the end of a month, and I’d talk to a prospect. And I talked to the sales rep. I’d say the same damn thing they said, right, I’m just repeating what they said. They’re like, it’s crazy how you say the same thing. I just told them and then all of a sudden, it’s like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it’s just, it’s just you’re different. It’s a different person. It’s just that carries a lot of weight.
Jeff Winters 28:30
Easy, winner, easy tip. Do it today,
Eric Watkins 28:32
do it today. I like that. That’s, that’s pretty easy to put into action as well.
Scott Scully 28:36
Closed, your increase your close rates by 250%. Today by adding another person to your call.
To Do or Not To Do
Eric Watkins 28:44
Alright, it’s time to wrap it up with to do or not to do? And that is the question. And that is the question. So this one, you know, this is controversial as well. We’ve had a very controversial episode. I figured I’d just stay with that theme today. Good. The question I have for you too. Today is Do you or do you not die it during the holidays? Now hear me out here? Hear me out here? The easy answer is just let yourself go. It’s the holidays, enjoy that Thanksgiving meal and just carry that over into Christmas and go up a couple pant sizes? Or it’s like do I get in shape for that little early vacation I have in 2023 Or do I get a jumpstart on my New Year’s resolution? Jeff, we’ll start with you man. What do you think and Scott
Jeff Winters 29:42
start? Oh,
Eric Watkins 29:42
God. All right, Scott.
Scott Scully 29:44
I’m very I got so many things to say first of all, dieters a salad with all the dressing in the ship.
Eric Watkins 29:53
So you’re looking at chess is very personally looking at worst.
Scott Scully 29:57
You might as well go have a Big Mac. Okay. So many things that you are eating on your quote unquote diet are worse for you than the slice of pizza. I believe that you could have an incredible turkey dinner, or, or great things during the holidays, if you do it in moderation. I, I hate dieting, I could absolutely lose 10 or 15 pounds. But I am pretty consistent with what my weight is be more consistent all year long, all year long. It’s like a salesperson trying to hit their sales quota at the end of the year. It’s like, do the right things all year, like daily, weekly, all year. You know, get the right amount of sleep, drink water, eat the right things workout, and then you’re not gonna have to worry about the holidays. If you’re, you know, sitting here right now, which I guess a lot of us are having a few extra pounds. Just enjoy all the things during the holidays. Just maybe don’t have three plates of it. Three plates, but don’t go eat salads during the best time of year to shut down some incredible food and stop with the soup during Thanksgiving.
Jeff Winters 31:16
Yeah, that’s one way to look at it. I choose. I choose to look at it differently. I Scott lives life in moderation. That’s great. I do extremes. I’m extreme guy. I like extreme happiness. And then I will absolutely be starved myself for a week. So here’s the way I look at it is a hard is a hard period for me. The period between family pictures, and New Years is tough. That’s that’s where I really struggle. From a diet perspective. Here’s my recommendation. And this is important. I I think the best time not a good time, this is the best time to start your fitness regimen, your diet, whatever it is, day after Thanksgiving, day after they let it go. Because if you’re an extreme person, Scott would say you do it the same way all year. Yeah, fine, then that’s great if that’s your thing, but if you’re like me, if you’re McDonald’s or soup cleanses the way you approach this and you need to listen hard. The way you approach this is you let it go from family pictures or if you’re the end of summer, whatever is your marker there, to Thanksgiving, and then after Thanksgiving. And it’s hard. But if you want to live life in extremes, it’s going to be hard. You got to do what other people won’t. So you can do what other people can’t. Other people won’t die during and get your fitness regimen going in December. Do it. So you can eat like a maniac and not exercise between family pictures or end of summer and thanksgiving. That’s the advice. I like it. I like it. I like you
Scott Scully 32:47
should eat till you can’t button your pants and then eat soup for two months after that and be more miserable for the 30 minutes of being satisfied. That’s great. That’s great advice. I’m glad we’re given good advice. Yeah, the audience that’s
Eric Watkins 33:02
what you do. Here’s what I’ll say you, you absolutely. You can’t skip Thanksgiving, no, no one can skip Thanksgiving and you got to you can’t not eat a lot on Thanksgiving. You got to eat yourself to sleep. That’s the rule holidays, sleep it off sleep about 15 hours, it’ll offset some of what you ate. But I would say a cheat code. Here’s the other thing outside of the holidays, there’s nothing going on this time of the year perfect time to diet perfect time to like not be out, etc. Like go to the gym, you don’t have to be drinking or whatever it is like you don’t have a bunch of parties etc. I would schedule a vacation early January a little beach vacation give you a little sense of motivation gets you through the holidays. It’s a little cheat code for you out there. Give you a little something spring.
Scott Scully 33:49
I like that yeah, the only tweak I would put on that is have a beach vacation once a quarter once a quarter there we go so that you have to continue to be not a fat s that’s fair. I’m not looking at you saying you’re fat so
Eric Watkins 34:05
you did look at him when you set up for
Jeff Winters 34:09
wrist and see on eating and fitness is for the birds
Scott Scully 34:13
and your salads should be replaced with a Big Mac
Eric Watkins 34:18
Caesar salad extra dressing bacon great. Okay, so ultimately it was it was too against one to do diet during the holidays. Definitely, definitely. But thank you Scott for your opinion.
Scott Scully 34:35
Sorry, to the grown nation to the the gross shins sometimes. Sometimes we don’t always agree. Hopefully you pulled some excellence from this episode. We’re enjoying the hell out of the season. This
Eric Watkins 34:49
is fun, good season.
Scott Scully 34:51
As always, follow share, subscribe, tell everybody about it. We’re just trying to help you from zero to 50 make the journey a little bit
Jeff Winters 35:01
easier let’s grow let’s grow let’s grow
In this episode we discuss the key elements needed to create your own growth formula, and how to measure progress so you can make any necessary adjustments. We also discuss why having a business growth formula is a must for any business looking to succeed.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Hey, what’s up grown nation? Welcome back to The Grow Show. My name is Scott Scully. I’m here with my co hosts, Jeff winters and Eric Watkins. Gentlemen, how are you? Hello. Hello,
Jeff Winters 00:12
feeling good. Welcome
Eric Watkins 00:13
back feeling good.
Scott Scully 00:15
We are loving bringing the heat on just everything that you need to do on your journey from zero to 50 million in sales a little bit of what we’ve learned along the way. Some things we screwed up, some things that we absolutely without a doubt think that you should do. Bar-none. Just having a blast, sharing. Yeah, we are. We’re gonna start like we always do. With Mr. Winters and two truths,
Eric Watkins 00:41
Sheriff winters, that
Scott Scully 00:42
is Sheriff Winters, keeping it clean,
Eric Watkins 00:46
throw sand lie to troops, and you know, you’ve got some good ones, I
Jeff Winters 00:55
think I got a good lie. But before I get into it, for our first time listeners, for our repeat listeners, for our loyal listeners, for our future loyal listeners, to truth and a lie segments and important segment, it’s really for society as a whole, it’s for the people. Because LinkedIn used to be a place Friends, let me take you back to when LinkedIn used to be a place where individual contributors, managers and leaders, CEOs and owners, and anyone who wanted could go to the platform, read the advice and take it as gold. And now, unfortunately, everything on that platform is not gold. And anyone can anytime, put out advice as though it is fact. And it is in fact, a lie. And so from this platform that used to be water from a spring, it has become the Mississippi River, water with a little schmutz. And we are here to de-schmutz. And make sure that you know what is fact. And what, Eric, is a lie. First, let us start with our two truths. The first comes from our friend Mark Plant, Mark Plant. It’s an interesting topic here talked about really frequently. Mark Plant asks and then answers. How many founders should a start up business have? The answer then is there are no fixed and fast rules for this. But being a sole founder can be a very lonely place to be. It is not necessarily about the number of founders, but it always helps to have a founder as someone that they can talk to multiple founders, they can have someone they can talk to, that comes from Mark Plant, I really related to this, I think it’s a as I’ve said, in past episodes of capital T truth. There’s like this, like view of the universe that you got to have to, you got to have at least two co-founders, or you got to have two co-founders two is the right number two,two, two, two. And I think marks right I don’t think there’s any set number of founders that you need to have in a business, you could have a lot of different numbers. And so that’s a truth number one. And then to the other truth, I’ll say this not having any co-founders while not saying you should or shouldn’t do it, is tough, having somebody else there to talk to to go through it with it’s, it’s a benefit. And it can be really lonely entrepreneurship can be really lonely. And having somebody else to go through it with as I think was a huge was a huge benefit for me. But I completely agree with our, with our friend Mark, there’s there’s no formula for how to do it whatsoever. Scott would say you I say truth.
Scott Scully 03:49
I say truth. And you know, in my 30 years being involved in a few businesses, I will say that I have been in a spot where I have even started on my own but eventually brought others in. I think that you can be more powerful as a team. You find people that are good at different things, you know, to complement where you’re not. I just think you have a stronger chance of success. I think a lot of single entrepreneurs still aren’t single entrepreneurs. I think they’ve got investment. Right. And they probably have some money backing and and they’re they’re still part of a team, but it’s just it’s not the same team. It’s a group of dictators, as opposed to a group that are in there. Maybe not taking pay, bouncing things off one another. solving the problems and celebrating when it happens. I get that you could say there isn’t any particular exact number. I would say that more than one Is the round I would go
Eric Watkins 05:01
yep. Yeah, being from the outside looking in, I would say there’s just been different times. In our business with Scott, your brother at one point, and Brian and Jason were, you know, having the flexibility to go solve different problems with different people, you don’t have that if you’re just the sole, sole owner and operator of the business. And then I’ll speak from the other side of, you know, growing into a spot where I earn shares in the company, I find myself looking at things differently, you care about the business in a certain way as that individual and having more people like that on your side, I could see over time how that’s really valuable.
Jeff Winters 05:44
In conclusion, through a lot of sales advice on LinkedIn, it’s a great place for sales advice. There’s some not so good sales advice, we may or may not get into some of that later in the season. But I think this is a good piece of sales advice. And it’s simple. From my friend Alex Kraemer, your sales reps don’t need another pipeline, or forecasting call. And this is near and dear to my heart, I have found a lot of leaders, especially sales leaders that don’t get out of their office or get off their zooms or jump on calls need to have something to do. And what better to do, than to take up your day. And the days of all of your sales reps. With pipeline discussions, come on in, let’s walk through your pipeline every day. Now, let’s walk through it again, then let’s walk through it in a group. And then let’s have you talk to me about your pipeline in front of six other people and do it for three hours and waste a bunch of people’s time when they could be doing the work that they ought to be doing, which is selling. So a lot of sales leaders think it is their duty to spend a ton of time in meetings, particularly listening to forecasts and pipeline and going through what’s going to come in so they can report to their boss about what they think is going to come in. And it’s a huge, not a small, an enormous waste of time, I understand you got to talk about pipeline, most of the time, these sales leaders are doing it so they can they can sound good to their boss. It’s the exact opposite thing sales leaders should be doing. As we talked about in our last episode, sales leaders should be helping increase win rates to under 50%. By being on calls, I understand you got to know your pipeline. Don’t wait your sales reps down. Your sales reps don’t need another pipeline or forecasting call. They have plenty already. It’s a truth.
Scott Scully 07:33
Truth, most people are sitting on top of software that will give that manager everything they need to know anyway, right? The people have a job for a reason, I would have once a week. Well, here we have a map. But I’d have touch base with your salespeople individually, one on one, once a week. And then I’d let him sell the rest of the time. They know why they were hired. You should have their metrics up in lights in in whatever software package you’re using. Let them roll, let them let them do what they do best connect with customers. And I do agree with like you said the managers stop calling meetings and because your people aren’t doing what they’re supposed to, that’s probably a lot of it to they’re not holding them accountable. They’re not performing. So they’re having another damn meeting, as opposed to just giving them expectations. Right. And then they have the job or they don’t. And then like you said most impact, get on calls with them.
Eric Watkins 08:34
awareness without action is nothing. So more awareness meetings is not the solution. You should have more action meetings or more action sessions of like, how do you actually move that pipeline forward? Because there’s been this thing, I think there’s been this trend in sales. And I would fall into this trap at times. It’s like you glorify the forecast, forecast doesn’t mean shit. Like, hitting the goal is what matters. The forecast doesn’t mean anything. So I think the action that is taken is always going to take precedent over the awareness you get.
Jeff Winters 09:06
Yeah, and everybody has a CRM or the vast majority of people have CRM, put the close probability in it. Right, the next steps in it, talk about it once a week. I’ve see a trend that I just despise, which is the forecast call where one person talks. The manager listens and the other four people on that call. wait for their turn. That cannot happen. Disaster, disaster waste of time everybody hates it. Yeah, well, they’ll learn from each other. No, they won’t. They’ll play on the phones. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Your sales reps don’t need another forecasting call. Truth.
Eric Watkins 09:43
Like truth Alex calm, good post Alex group posts with some
Scott Scully 09:47
bringing the goodness to Alex is one of the good guests.
Jeff Winters 09:52
And someone isn’t some. This may be a frequent flyer on this particular segment. because it’s sales development, which is code for spam, which is misaligned with buyer preferences, in fact, anti buyer and anti market modern marketing technology and know how from Nelson Nelson doesn’t like sales development as a discipline, he thinks it’s bad.
Scott Scully 10:26
I don’t even know that I understand. I don’t really understand most,
Eric Watkins 10:29
what is he saying? Nelson is saying you should never sell somebody something they should always buy it.
Jeff Winters 10:35
Basically, I think what he’s trying to say I don’t want to speak for Nelson is that any outbound sales development is not okay. believe he wrote a book to this effect.
Scott Scully 10:47
Nelson has a book, I believe so on why you should not have sales development, give or take, what should you do?
Eric Watkins 10:54
Wait, wait, sit around and wait
Jeff Winters 10:56
and wait. Right? I? This is rough. I mean, this is particularly hard for me.
Eric Watkins 11:02
For all of us. It’s what we do for a living well, a it’s what
Jeff Winters 11:06
we do for a living for 1000s of customers. But be we’ve also built businesses on this strategy. We have many friends, colleagues, and others who have built businesses on this
Scott Scully 11:15
strategy author, or he as he actually had a business.
Jeff Winters 11:20
I know he is an author. I don’t know anything else about about Nelson I. He’s spreading, but I think Nelson made may have maybe a like I said he may be a frequent flyer on the ships here is because this this works. Well, but I think this is serious. Like if people don’t if people take this advice, and they go, this is right, let’s stop, stop prospecting. Let’s stop cold calling. Let’s stop. You could put yourself in a world of hurt.
Eric Watkins 11:46
So you’re asked, here’s what he is assuming? Yeah, right. I think this is the big flaw in the logic is that all potential buyers of your services are 100% aware of the problems and the impact that’s having to their business right now. And they’re not, they’re just not. So it takes out bound prospecting, at times to educate and bring awareness to the problems that they’re dealing with that if they fix could significantly impact their business for the positive. So sitting around and waiting, you are dependent upon the awareness of your future buyers, which I think is done,
Scott Scully 12:21
Nelson apparently filed the yellow brick road to the end of the rainbow where there was a pot of gold. Nelson did too much LSD in college. And the fact of the matter is, you need sales development to land on the number of qualified meetings. And then you look at your close rate. By the way, we’re about ready to get into the business development formula perfect lead in. But Nelson, you need some leads, and you can’t sit around and wait or you won’t grow. And you would know that if you actually did it,
Eric Watkins 12:54
false lie.
Scott Scully 12:59
I don’t think many people are Brian Nelson. Yeah, like he might be out there, you
Eric Watkins 13:02
get a lot of likes on that. You should share the number of likes No. Come on.
Jeff Winters 13:08
It’s good to have different points of view. Yeah, that is a lie.
Eric Watkins 13:13
Are you pro Nelson?
50 for 50
Scott Scully 13:15
Well, building on what Nelson said out there and LinkedIn, poop pasture. We would like to talk about the 50 for 50. And another one of our 50 strategies, tips processes is our business growth formula, not our business growth formula, but have a business growth formula. So we talk to lots of businesses that are looking to hire us and they want to grow. And we ask questions in our sales process. And a lot of people are not aware of the number of new sales meetings they actually need to have, in order to grow by the amount of revenue or by the percentage or number of clients that they want to grow by. So a lot of people say, hey, this year, I’d like to grow by 10%, or 20%. Or I’d like to double my business. That’s typical, like we all want to take our business to the next level. But what is interesting is the amount of leaders that don’t know the exact strategy that they need to follow in order to do that. And in order to know where you’re going, you need to know, obviously, your current business as it stands today, right? What your attrition rate is going to be over the course of the next year. You need to know what your average client revenue looks like, what your close rate and your show rates look like. And you got to put the formula together, right? You have to know like too many people let’s say it’s a million dollar business, they say I want to do 1.5. So then they back in and they say okay, well if I put a half a million dollars in sales on the board, I’ll be at one point Five, but they forget the fact that they’re going to lose 200 grand that year. Right? They’re gonna have 200 grand in nutrition. So they actually need 700 grand in new revenue. And from there, you got to back into how many meetings do I need to have? Like, how many appointments do I need to set to have X number of appointments show, you know, and looking at my close rate, and looking at what my average client looks like, like I need this exact amount of meetings on a weekly monthly basis, throughout the year to land on that new 700 G’s in revenue. I know that this is it’s like ABC 123. Like, why are they even talking about it. And the reason we’re talking about it is because nobody does it, like nine out of 10, people don’t know their actual formula. And the exact number of new sales meetings, they need to actually hit their growth goals. And I would also suggest some people don’t even have exact growth goals. It’s just, hey, it’d be nice to know. So like, you know, the most successful people in life, they have goals, very specific ones with strategies to get there. And they’re living life with purpose on a daily basis, following those strategies, so that at the end of the year, they actually reached their goals. But somehow we don’t do that in business. What exactly do you want to do? How are you going to get there? Foul it, there’s a formula you need to put in place? You got to do it, or you’re not going to grow period? What do you guys think?
Jeff Winters 16:27
It’s a very easy formula. Far too many people don’t do it. And I think for those that that do, do it, here’s at an executive level talking about the executive level, going through this formula, an issue that people will run into, is they stop at sales, they don’t go back the next step. They go, Oh, well, okay, we know we want to grow 20%. And we’re gonna have this much customer loss. And so we need this much in new sales. And then they hand it to the sales leader, and they go, let’s, you got to figure this out. Here’s, I think, our collective challenge, go one more step. If you are an executive, you’re on the board, it is worth it to go that next step and say, Okay, we need this many shown pitches. And we need this many scheduled pitches. That’s the challenge to the group. Because when you build from sales, it’s not tactical enough, it’s not enough in your control, build from meetings scheduled, start with meeting scheduled in the boardroom, you’ll have an easier time getting the sales,
Scott Scully 17:35
you’re not going to grow year over year. Like in the beginning, you get you’re so small, you get some referrals, just some things happen, where you may double from year one to year two without knowing this, right. But if you’re multiple years in and you can’t spit out, I need 532 News sales meetings to hit my 17 and a half percent growth goal. You’re never gonna get there.
Eric Watkins 17:59
You know, I grew up in this. So like, this was always something to me, like, Duh, right? Because I knew it from like, this is what we talked, we’ve talked about from day one. But then I talked to my some of my friends, you know, that do this at other businesses, not this but do things that other businesses, too, like? Yeah, man, I’m really trying to shoot for x this year. I’m like, oh, okay, well, how are you gonna get there? You know, I’m just really working on my pitch, and I’m gonna get a lot better. Like, well, hold on. You made me think about the numbers that are going to drive you to be able to get there. And you know, I think that and then the other side of this is yes, this is important to grow your business. But it’s also important to pinpoint your problems. So like a lot of businesses, if you’re just like revenues, revenue, and your group it all in, you don’t know, if you have a churn issue. You don’t know, if you have a lead issue, you don’t know if you have a closed rate issue, but being scientific and intentional about it, you’re just gonna be better as a business because you’re gonna be able to isolate. Okay, here’s the downfall in our process currently, and here’s, you know, we need to we want to grow by 20%. Great, are we gonna get more leads? Are we going to close at a higher rate are we gonna lose, lose less customers, like what just one of those things has to happen?
Scott Scully 19:13
Go down to at least pitches held, right. But, you know, obviously, the, the further you get into this, you’re going to look at a referral, a pitch with a referral versus a pitch from a web lead versus a pitch from a cold call. And your show rates and close rates are going to be different. So you really want to get exact about this and be successful. You start at the top and then you continue, you know, as the years progress, working your way down, and looking at even more of these, these metrics underneath, but you have to have a formula
Eric Watkins 19:47
that that’s such a good point. Like you you have people who have just grown their business off referrals and then they come in and you know, they’re, we’re onboarding them to our services. And we’re like, you know, what’s your clothes, right? Well, it’s about 90%. 90% Yeah, like, what kind of leads are you? Are you getting? Well, my buddy Frank is referring over all these people who have a need and pain. And it’s a trusted source to a trusted source. So I think understanding every channel is going to have a little different clothes, right? It’s not going to be what it’s been
Jeff Winters 20:18
to those people listening. Imagine if the one problem you and your executive team solved, to grow your business. Imagine the one problem you solved was pitches help. If you center your entire executive team on that, it’s so hard to miss if you know exactly how many pitches you need, and you solve that problem, and you get that number of pitches. And you you can miss there’s some obviously to Eric’s point, you’ll find whatever the real problem is, but boy, center your team on that number.
Scott Scully 20:47
And you may find that where you’re at today, it’s like I need 532 new sales presentations to reach my growth goal, you may find that your without some serious movement, the growth that you want for next year, it just isn’t even possible. Because you don’t have aligned how you’re going to get those new sales presentations. I would drill down on that number, like you’re saying, Jeff, put it up on the wall, share it with everyone and monitored as the year goes on. And you’re you’re gonna have a higher likelihood of growing period.
Jeff Winters 21:20
I know you had drilled down on that number, do you know how I know? Because we’re on our 33rd meeting, it’s it’s October about how we’re gonna hit the pitch. And part of this is funny and part of its real guy, I’m the Chief Revenue Officer, this business, Scott is my boss. That is what we meet about for hours and hours and hours and hours, how are we going to hit our 2023 pitch goal, we’ll figure out all the rest of it later, we are not going to not hit that goal. And we’re going to spend as much time as it takes to figure out exactly how we’re gonna hit it. That’s the level of rigor and discipline we have in this business.
Scott Scully 21:52
Take it to the bank, find out how many new sales pitches you need for your growth next year, and let everybody know about it, share it, and and you will get there. Eric, speaking of leads,
Mining for Growth Gold
Eric Watkins 22:04
speaking of leads, we have a little bit of mining for gross gold that’s been going on. And today, I am going to double your appointments via social with this tip, I’m going to double your appointments to x, you don’t have to do anything different other than what I say in this tip. And I’m going to double the number of social opportunities that you get is a hot tip. So right now, you know this for the people that are doing something with social, they’re getting some leads, right, you’re running LinkedIn, you’re running Facebook, depending on your b2b b2c, like you’re running lead campaigns, you’re getting lead, this even goes to website you’re getting leads to your website, what is going on right now is you’re you’re working so hard to just get a response from a prospect, and then they’re responding. And they’re coming into your inbox. And then the person that was really good at writing that message is then now going back and forth, trying to get a meeting scheduled, and you are wasting time period, you are wasting time, what you need to do is either invest in a person that can do both, or find somebody that can pick up the phone and call this person ASAP. As soon as a lead comes back, as soon as they respond, pick up the phone and call them. Our conversion rates are off the charts from going straight to a call. And it’s natural for us because that’s how our business was built. So it’s kind of easy. And I know that’s tougher in different businesses, but find somebody who doesn’t mind picking up the phone and call these prospects, because you will convert at such a higher rate, get a response, call them back ASAP, you can respond through LinkedIn as well. You can respond through email as well. But in addition, make that call right away.
Jeff Winters 23:49
I think this is an very important evolution, probably for a lot of companies because it’s so natural, like you send somebody a note on LinkedIn about potentially meeting talk about your services. And they reply, Oh, good. Well, let me reply. Okay, well, now I gotta wait for them to reply again. Why would you do that? I guess it sounds intellectually like, oh, this makes so much linear sense. Don’t do it. Because as soon as you start this back and forth, now you’re introducing time as this variable. They gotta be on the platform, or they gotta be in front of their inbox or whatever it is. Take time out. They’ve just they’ve just told you they’re interested. Waste no time. Call them right then schedule that appointment.
Scott Scully 24:33
This is not popular advice. No, not popular. People do not like to pick up the phone. The interesting thing is it’s still the number one sales tool. There is. Period. End of story.
Jeff Winters 24:46
we’ve coined a name here by the way. You have the cold call. It’s been known forever. Eric, what is this?
Eric Watkins 24:54
The warm call the warm call the warm call. The warm call And the here’s the the hidden benefit with this too, you know, if you’re a business like you, you don’t want just one leads, you want to qualify your leads, especially ones that come through your website because you get a lot of junk. This gives you an easy opportunity to qualify the lead as well. And it’s so much easier to do that over the phone than it is through a message. And it comes across so much better. But yeah, absolutely find somebody to take your warm calls as a business. And you need to come up with a system of how time is of the essence there.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 25:32
Jeff, now let’s assume that they’ve all listened to Eric’s advice, why wouldn’t they? And they are sitting there on a pot of gold leads. What do you got from sales.
Jeff Winters 25:44
So what I’m going to say is, is not new. But the way I’m suggesting you do, it might be different. So for ever, and always, ever since sales theory became a thing, there has been this concept of the takeaway close or the reverse sell, which is the idea that you’re going to kind of pull away from the prospect so that they will move toward you easy examples. And I don’t recommend this language. But just for simplicity sake, easy example is you’re getting toward the end of the call and the salesperson goes, Bob, clearly you’re not interested in this. And then Bob goes, Wait a second, I am interested in this. That’s the takeaway clothes in some form or fashion in a very simplistic way. And what I would suggest to our listeners, is that we need to use the takeaway close in a nuanced way, a lot more frequently, a lot more frequently. And here’s here’s the best analogy I can give at the end of a sales call. And I’ve listened to so many and so have we all it’s like the sales reps are pushing on a pull door. That’s what I feel they’re pushing on a pull door, the prospect isn’t given a much information. We’ve all been there. And they keep pushing them. Is this something you think you’d be interested in? Yeah, no, it sounds pretty entry. And then their type, and we’re on Zoom now. So you could see him just doing, you know, looking up? And okay, well, well, why do you think you’ve mentioned this? Well, we, you know, gotta grow the business. And they’re typing and maybe watching CNBC, and the, you know, in your head as a salesperson, they’re lying to you. We’re not interested. But you’re just going to keep going for as a great show. We scheduled next steps. Yeah, for sure. Can we call it a couple of weeks? And you get off the call? And you go, I don’t know. Seems like a winner, right? I probably I’ll put it in my CRM give. What do you think? 50%? Let’s give it a 50%.
Eric Watkins 27:30
What what you hear is like, I killed that pitch or that yeah, like, I can’t No rush. Yeah, well, what did they think that you did? Like, I know, you killed it. But what did they do?
Jeff Winters 27:39
And then when you say, what did you think then you invent the story based on what you saw? Right? Well, you know, I can tell they’re interested, because you know, they were engaged, and they’re answering my question. Okay. You don’t know that. So what I would suggest is, unless they’re like, you’re like, 90%. Sure they’re there. You ought to use the takeaway clothes. And it ought to be it’s so it’s just gentle. It’s it’s more nuanced. It’s, it’s, Hey, look, Eric. Tell me if I’m misreading the room here. Sometimes my wife says I’m a little not so good awareness will tell me if I’m Miss reading the room. But kind of getting the sense that maybe you’re not that interested in this. Or maybe this isn’t what you were expecting, like, am I? Am I reading that wrong? Boom, just do that. It’s not offensive. It’s not in your faith, not sales tactic II. It’s just, I’m being honest with what I’m hearing and what I am seeing, because that is what I truly believe. And then you will get what you need. And that person will stop watching CNBC. They will stop typing, they will look at you, and they will tell you exactly what you want to know. And any answer to that question is good. Hey, you know what, Jeff, you’re right. I’m not that interested. Okay. Tell me. Why No, that’s good. Or they’ll say, You know what, Jeff, I’m working from home, I got the dog chasing the kid who’s chasing the dog was chasing the other kid. I’m not that focused, but truly, I am interested. And you know, when you say to that, tell me why. Again, it’s the same answer to the question like, Tell me Tell me a little more about that. Why? Why do you find this interesting? Either way, that’s the way you go. The tip here, use the takeaway close a lot more often. It doesn’t have to be harsh. It can be nuanced, and it can work for you.
Scott Scully 29:21
I wish Brian cannon was sitting here because when I say this guy’s name, he would totally agree. But there’s a guy on our past. His name is Mike Panozzo. He owned a technology driven direct marketing company down in Daytona Beach, Florida. He was a partner of ours. And Scotty was brilliant. Their technology was unbelievable. The the print technology that he had way before its time, things they did in the call center that they had, the way that they mined data. It was all kind of out of this world early for its time. I’m, and he’d walk you around. And it just, it was impressive just in what it did. But he’d say things like, I don’t know. I mean, I think this is pretty cool. Like you think Toyota dealers would like it, you know, and then it will just boom, boom, it’s doing all these things. And it’s like, you know, or I think it’d be a good for car dealers. But I know, you know, car dealers, like, if it did this and put someone’s picture on here and put their exact, like payment that they’re making and how much money they’d save and put it all on a mail piece. And every piece could be different, like literally meaning that someone’s picture the car, they’re driving their current payment, and what their new payment would be if that was on a mail piece. Would that be a good direct mail? campaign? I don’t really know. But I think you’d hear no, you’re like, that’s awesome. He was incredible. And they did 100% of his sales that way. Like, I don’t know, I gotta ask you some questions. You’re the one you know, the car business. Like,
Jeff Winters 31:03
I love this probably isn’t a good ideas. No, it’s a great idea. Oh,
Eric Watkins 31:08
there’s all sorts of amazing science behind this. I’m reading the book, again, like for the 10th time, but crucial conversations leadership book about how to have tough conversations, and they talk about how tentative language is so much more persuasive than commanding language interesting. So coming into things being a little bit unsure, and not so certain actually gets people to want to do it more. And I think with what we sell, we sell exclusivity. So you talk about you’ve just got you’ve talked about this a lot, is not only the takeaway close at the end, but don’t ever give it to them in the first place. So a lot of times, you know, will we sell an exclusive market and be like, I think you’d be a great partner. Like we would love to have you we’d love to. But along the way, it’s like, I don’t maybe maybe it’s you. Maybe it’s somebody else. I’m not sure. Maybe you don’t want it, maybe someone else has a better fit. That makes people want it more like they want it more. If you don’t give it to him. So take it away from
Jeff Winters 32:05
him. And it’s not scummy. It’s totally honest. It’s like watching you’re not paying, you’re not paying attention. Like I genuinely want to know it. I genuinely don’t think you’re that into this. And like that’s what I’m gonna say, you know, where else I would say that in life all the time. Like if someone it’s just real life sales, by the way, spoiler alert. Sales is just a conversation between two mammals like it just like real life. It my wife and I are watching a movie and she’s playing on her phone. I’m not gonna say Do you like the movie? Yeah, like the movie? And are you having a good time? Oh, man, it’s such a good time. No, what I’m gonna say is, Hey, Kate. Seems like you’re not that into this movie. Wrong.
Eric Watkins 32:42
Am I wrong? You’re not into this.
Jeff Winters 32:46
Another tales from sales?
Eric Watkins 32:48
I another tales from tales from sales. That was a great one you liked? That was a great one. No, that’s the takeaway close is just you know, what’s the root of it? What’s funny is it goes back. Whoa, you’re going back? We’re coming back. We’re
Jeff Winters 33:03
coming back. This one. Really tales from set? Just really quick. You know, it’s a good yeah,
Eric Watkins 33:08
we we talked about this in a different and a different deal is pipeline meetings. I think we actually enable this behavior in pipeline meetings, because what we do is we create this culture where people want to constantly have deals in their pipeline. Yes. So the fear is, I don’t want to lose a deal in my pipeline. So I’m not going to ask those uncomfortable tough questions, when I feel like they may not be a deal. So I feel like to bring it full circle. You guys are sharp today, like that. I like all right.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 33:38
Now, you know, what this leads us into,
Eric Watkins 33:40
you know what it leads us? To you, you got to do things, or you got to not do things, those are your only options to do or to not do and that is the question. So, if you’re looking at me, like I got for us
Jeff Winters 33:55
well, because you said it’s to do what not to do. It’s not to do or to not do.
Eric Watkins 34:00
Is that what I said?
Jeff Winters 34:03
Rolling over in his grave. Now. What are you talking about? I’m going to the I’m going to the monitor, I mean,
Eric Watkins 34:08
to do or not to do? That is the question. That is the question. Is that the question? Okay, you ready for this? I think we’re all aligned on this.
Scott Scully 34:17
I think Shakespeare really would like how we’re using this.
Eric Watkins 34:22
I think Shakespeare would love how we’re using this. The kind of language we’re using on the gross show.
Jeff Winters 34:30
Thou doth protest too much. Oh, my
Eric Watkins 34:32
thou doth
Jeff Winters 34:33
a little bit of a high level
Eric Watkins 34:36
should thou should thou eat breakfast or not? You hear a lot of people out there that say breakfast is the most important meal of the day. It sets the foundation for the rest of your day. Scott, start us off. Are you a breakfast guy? Are you not a breakfast
Scott Scully 34:56
guy? On Thursdays
Eric Watkins 34:58
I eat bread on Thursdays you eat breakfast? So one day,
Scott Scully 35:01
I think that it’s been proven that it would be the meal that you should not skip. I have not been good. At this, I’ll grab maybe a quick bowl of cereal but more often than not breakfast bar and an ICE T and head out the door. But I think if you ate a well balanced meal, you’d probably have more energy and eat less as the day goes on. You know, like for instance, you wouldn’t be loaded up at dinner right before you went to bed. I know what Jeff’s gonna that’s
Jeff Winters 35:42
a stock answer. Get that out of the closet. Um, I am very pro breakfast food and anti variant whatever the the anti underscore is the act of eating before 11 I just find it repulsive. I
Eric Watkins 36:02
bet you can’t wait till 12 Oh, no. We found that out. Dude,
Jeff Winters 36:06
get out of my way. There’s a line at the microwave. I’m be at the front of it. And by the end, I will gorge myself at 530 Forget Oh, you forget it. Like, dinner isn’t on the table at 530 I’m just breathing hot fire on whoever I can look at. Let me tell you something about breakfast. Here’s why. It’s here’s why no one should eat it. Number one. I have said all that energy bullshit is made by like the breakfast interest group. That’s not true. It’s a scam. I have so much more energy, not eating bread. i By the way, what time is right now? It’s 1245 Central. I haven’t had a morsel to eat today. I’m bouncing off the wall energy drinks. I’m bouncing off the walls. I couldn’t have more I could run a marathon right now. If I had three eggs and four pins. I mean, I look at people with pity at breakfast at 830 when I’m having coffee and my kids are losing steam and they’re having three pancakes. I can’t even imagine that life. I don’t know what that is. That’s gonna have three pancakes. And then what are you gonna We’re
Scott Scully 37:06
not good. We’re not good sources. He has energy drinks. I have Adderall. We are two bad sources for whether or not used to get energy in the morning from food.
Jeff Winters 37:14
I’m looking at this guy and I’m little what does the rest of your day look like after two pieces of French toast at eight? I know what? Like I’m Oh, it’s over for me. So I am a no breakfast guy because of the energy because of the focus. And as important as any of that stuff. Because the convenience because you know what? The Pro breakfast crowd does? You know what they’re worried about? I haven’t eaten breakfast yet. It’s 915. And I haven’t had my breakfast. Yeah. In that great. Like, don’t worry about that. Don’t worry. We’re not in the hunter gatherer movement anymore. You don’t need fucking breakfast like, just don’t worry about it. It’s so freeing to not have to worry about a third of the meals you’re gonna have during the day
Scott Scully 37:57
such bullshit. So if we had eggs, bacon, sausage, pancakes, whatever it is here. And if you were to walk in the door, walked by a breakfast bar where it was there. Would you skip past it? Or would you get yourself played because it was there and it was easy.
Jeff Winters 38:15
I would only be there to look at the people who are going to have two big sausage patties at 730 in the morning and then go on about their day like It’s unfathomable to me
Eric Watkins 38:28
our production would drop at 10% We should do it. We should do that. We’ll do a test. We’ll give one team pancakes every single morning. I think it I think breakfast is a scam. It’s unhealthy. Every every piece of it is that there’s not one part of it that’s healthy. There’s not one part of it. It’s all carbs. It’s all sugar yet to
Scott Scully 38:46
see somebody come back from lunch and not false.
Eric Watkins 38:49
That’s true. That gorging Well that’s because they probably ate breakfast too.
Jeff Winters 38:54
Because they smashed a couple of dishes at breakfast.
Scott Scully 38:58
They did not eat breakfast and they smashed three burgers and want to Jeff salads at lunch
Eric Watkins 39:05
so what a Jeff salads will put you out for the afternoon
Scott Scully 39:09
that’s bigger than this table it’s bigger
Jeff Winters 39:11
we can get into I think eating any protein before five o’clock should be outlawed. For productivity sake any discussion for another time?
Eric Watkins 39:20
Okay, yeah, I don’t disagree with that. But we’re not anyways, I think to sum it up. Don’t eat breakfast. Don’t I don’t care what your health teacher told you. Eat breakfast. Are you trying to grow your business don’t eat breakfast and eat bread.
Scott Scully 39:33
I would like to put a disclaimer out there that at least for the last couple of episodes. I do not agree with the advice that we’re putting out there in the world. As always, we would like to remind you to be kind, grow and grind.
Jeff Winters 39:51
Let’s grow. Let’s grow let’s grow.
Quality KPIs should be a top priority for every business. It’s not just about measuring the success of your products or services; quality KPIs also provide insight into how well your team is performing, whether your processes are efficient, and how effective your strategies are.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back grow nation, the growth, the growth options. We have another episode of fire. We are totally excited today to bring you some tips to make it just a little bit easier to go from zero to 50 mil. We have been there done that. And man, we don’t want it to be as hard on you, Jeff, you excited about today?
Jeff Winters 00:27
I’m very excited about today. I think today’s gonna be the best episode we’ve ever had. In fact, I don’t think I know.
Scott Scully 00:42
Eric, you came in touting some huge numbers for our podcast from a listenership. Yeah, I
Eric Watkins 00:50
think we just surpassed 5 million numbers. Not official. But what I saw 5 million listeners. So still counting? Yeah. Still counts going up? Yeah, it’s like, I mean, it may be off by a few one or two, etc. But now I’m fired up. Yeah. This is this is taken off.
Scott Scully 01:06
No doubt. Look, there is a list that’s out there that says, We are the top podcast in the planet.
Eric Watkins 01:15
I know. And I think we have more viewers than anything in the world right now. Outside of Kanye’s tweets. He just got shut down again. The third.
Scott Scully 01:26
Oh, funny, but not funny.
Eric Watkins 01:28
Yeah. Not funny. But onto growing your business
Scott Scully 01:31
On to growing your business? Well, you know what we like to start with Two Truths, and a Lie.
Jeff Winters 01:39
Two Truths, and a Lie. Has it ever been more important to police LinkedIn? For the people I can tell you, even since we started this new segment, not but a few months ago, it’s gotten worse. LinkedIn has gotten worse. As we say, every episode, this is important. We have some fun, but it’s important. LinkedIn used to be a place where you could go to reliably get great advice, you could take it to the bank. And now it is not. And kidding aside, if you take some of this advice and put it into practice in your business, it could have suboptimal results. So we have taken it upon ourselves to find two things every week, we know or think very strongly to be true. And one that we think is a lie.
Eric Watkins 02:39
I do have to say yeah, I see you kind of walking around more your shoulders are back, you know as the the official sheriff of LinkedIn. I feel like your your, your ego is continuing to grow of like, you just feel like you’re really doing a service for the people – cue the horse noise.
Jeff Winters 02:57
I have my own sound effects.
Scott Scully 03:00
I’m glad we have you.
Eric Watkins 03:03
here’s to protect the people.
Jeff Winters 03:05
We’re here to protect the people. Right? Yeah. Let me take off my hat, my cool aviators, share the first truth of this week, which comes from Isaac Tweedale, who says, Why do we glorify sports, hustle culture, but then demonize entrepreneurs? No one would ever call the level of commitment to sport, quote, toxic. But what’s so different about athletes and founders, both groups experienced the same sacrifices. In fact, great athletes often make brilliant entrepreneurs. If anything, sports is a more selfish endeavor, starting a business can impact millions of lives. If you’re an athlete, your impact is limited. Yet, we hold up athletes as Gods this is. So that’s the end of the quote. And this leads into what I think is one of the most topical controversial topics in business today, which is this hustle culture. And it is so true to me, we constantly laud athletes for the time they put in and the commitment and the 4am Wake up in the midnight go to bed, and they’ll get in the gym twice or three times a day to perfect their craft. But in business, that’s not okay. In business, it’s not okay to encourage that hustle or to engage in that hustle. And it’s a very odd dynamic, and I’ve never seen it called out this way. And I think we need to talk about it.
Scott Scully 04:34
You know what I’m thinking about right now. I’m thinking about, you know, there was just a lot of news about how Elon Musk was going to what sleep on the floor, Twitter until it’s fixed. Yeah. The guy has put his entire life into really changing the world, right? And then you’ve got LeBron James, who has also put a bunch of work in to become arguably one of the best players ever. I think Michael Jordan would wipe his ass in a hurry, but I’m on the Jordan side. Why can LeBron say whatever the hell he wants? And Elon Musk gets just mangled when Elon Musk is actually impacting the world. And LeBron is a good basketball player that carries his own opinion and what he says some of it factual, right, some of it total bullshit. Why can one say whatever he wants, and be glorified, and the other is right now, one of the more unpopular people, because of some of the moves that he’s making to try to fix
Jeff Winters 05:37
the world. Yeah, especially around work ethic. Like you hear LeBron James, or Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan famously sort of invented like popularized hustle culture, like, why do we glorify Michael Jordan and hold him on a pedestal for working so hard? And he would tell anyone who comes behind him, you got to work that hard, but yet in business, not okay
Eric Watkins 05:57
I mean, very simply put, Isaac is a great post. This is a great way to think about it. I’ve never thought about it or heard about it in this analogy, but you hear it all the time. You know, everyone talks about work life balance, work life balance, no one’s talking about LeBrons work life balance. They’re bragging about how hard he works. And he gets glorified for it. And it gets paid off. He gets rewarded for it. So I I do think I think this is a great post. I think it’s a truth.
Jeff Winters 06:22
I think it’s true. It’s not fair. It’s not fair. It’s not right. I think the most important thing here is it’s like teaching the wrong the wrong lesson. Scott, I know you’d say the same. We started these businesses. There was a lot of hustling going on. A lot.
Scott Scully 06:35
Same kind of thing. A lot of hustle a lot of sacrifice. We love you, Isaac,
Jeff Winters 06:41
Isaac, you are our first truth. Yeah.
Eric Watkins 06:45
Even though Jeff said your last name wrong. We still appreciate everything. He said there.
Jeff Winters 06:49
I try. I have another truth. And it comes from Lars Nielsen. And he said, and I’m paraphrasing. The hardest part of getting any deal any new sale is finding it. Lars Nielsen, Lars Nilsson, by the way, no slouch, he runs all of sales development for Snowflake. Been on many, many dozens of boards. I mean, the guys, I think this is a 1,000,000% Truth. The hardest part of getting any deal or winning any new customer is finding it. And I know we’re a little predisposed to this because this is the world we’re in Sure. But if you give me the greatest sellers in the world, with no ability or wherewithal or drive, to go schedule their own new sales meetings, or a bunch of people who will schedule sales meetings and a person who can close deals, I’ll take the people that’ll get the meetings and our personal close deal over a whole team of incredible sellers who won’t get meetings. Every time I firmly believe this is a truth. The hardest part of getting a deal is finding it.
Scott Scully 08:06
I agree. First of all, Lars you have a badass name.
Jeff Winters 08:09
No, yeah, he’s the man
Eric Watkins 08:10
anything he says is immediately going to be more likely to be true.
Scott Scully 08:14
Hopefully you’re a Metallica fan, that would make the whole thing that much better. I’m sorry, to those of you that are too young to know who Metallica is I feel sad for you. Well, like you said, this is what we do. Right? If if that wasn’t the case, we wouldn’t be in business. If there weren’t 1000s of businesses that were out there that needed help in the business development part of the sales process, then we just literally wouldn’t exist. You can make up sales numbers by putting in that first business development activity. Right. It’s hard to make up sales numbers by finding enough you know, elite salespeople that will actually do their own prospecting. Right? So it’s truth all the way from me.
Eric Watkins 09:03
1,000% true. And my logic behind this is if it wasn’t true, then sales reps wouldn’t complain about quality of leads. Do they? You know, from time to time, from time to time, but if this wasn’t true, then people wouldn’t complain about quality leads because it’d be so easy to close every deal that comes across your desk. Truth, Truth, Truth.
Scott Scully 09:26
Okay. Here comes comes the lie.
Jeff Winters 09:33
And I’m sure Brandon’s a nice guy. I’m sure he is but I think this is a very important thing that we need to talk about. January is a tough month. It’s cold. It’s dark. post-holiday depression. I’m gonna give you stats as to why I have a problem with this. Oh,
Scott Scully 09:56
hold on. Cool. But what is he saying?
Eric Watkins 09:57
What’s he saying? It’s just hard? Does that Hard
Jeff Winters 10:00
January’s a tough month, it’s cold. It’s dark, post holiday depression.
Eric Watkins 10:06
That’s all it said?
Jeff Winters 10:09
That’s, that’s the part that I captured. Okay. I don’t want to interpret for Brandon. Not here. Here’s my problem with this. First of all, it’s at least in the sales world, factually inaccurate. So we schedule more sales meetings for our clients in January, than any other month of the year. The next highest month is February in March and then October, so that that’s not true, factually in sales. And next, it’s this idea that, Oh, you know, you can sort of let your guard down. It’s January like it’s okay kind of slide into the rest of the year. And the problem is that everybody budgets this way, and you get behind and I hate this, like, oh, at the end of the year, we’re going to be at an amazing number but in January you know, things can be slow and then you find yourself catching your tail the whole year. January is a great month to sell. January is a great month two accounting to finance people are if your sales reps are reading this, they’re gonna get the wrong message. You got to start out the year fast. Don’t worry about all this other bullshit that’s that’s in your head. I think this is wrong.
Scott Scully 11:24
What’s the point of the post? We wrap it up with something was there like a final message or some something he was trying to pass tonight?
Jeff Winters 11:35
Again, he’s not here. But my guess is it’s like, you got to work really, really hard right now to get everything going for 23 Because once you hit January, like people are hungover from the holidays. That’s my read on
Scott Scully 11:50
lie. Like you said, it’s our best month ever for our clients 1000s of clients in every state across the entire country. We literally set more sales meetings in January than any other month and it’s because people are making decisions. Right people are people are naturally full of budget. Right? It’s January their budget is full the tank is not empty. They’re making decisions to make it a little bit easier on their end to accomplish their goals. The best frickin month to sell period this guy does know what he’s talking about. I’m glad that you again are out there and the Washington pasture protect in the PBN incredible.
Eric Watkins 12:32
If you had to pick two weeks out of the year where people are the most productive? What would those weeks be? Probably right after New Year’s when they’re making all these resolutions. It’s like there’s, this is the time to get people when they’re in that mindset. So that is completely false. Don’t agree with it at all.
Scott Scully 12:51
LinkedIn, shut down his account.
Eric Watkins 12:53
But I do love. Hopefully he spreads that and a lot of our competitors listen to that make a little bit easier for us.
Jeff Winters 13:01
January sucks for business, lie, lie, lie.
Scott Scully 13:07
Jeff, as always, you’re saving us.
Jeff Winters 13:11
You’re saving us doing my duty.
50 for 50
Scott Scully 13:13
All right, next section 50 for 50. These are our top 50 Business Growth tips. Things that we know that you should implement in route to $50 million in revenue. We’ve been there. We’ve made the mistakes. But there are also some things that we got right? These are those things. If we ever started a business again from scratch, we would implement these 50 things without fail. Period. I love today’s today’s is all about quality. You know there are people that are listening that say hey, I have quality. I’ve got quality checks on my production line, right? Or maybe there are sales managers that are thinking hey, I listen to sales pitches and score those and give feedback to to our sales department. I believe in quality. I’m talking about quality in literally every position in your building. So we have an A player score, which will be highlighted in another episode. But part of that a player score is a quality score. And whether you are doing the very important work of answering the phones and being first impression to those that are calling the company or keeping the office clean and tidy so people can be productive or you’re on the production line or you’re selling you’re an account manager. It doesn’t matter. Every single person is important on the team. Every single person should have consistent quality checks. I know that that sounds weird. I know that that sounds like extra work, but you should have standard and plays, if you will, in literally every position. And if you do, your productivity is going to be greater, your people are going to play together more as a team, and you’re going to have a higher chance of success. Right? You know, I think of a football team, I mentioned football just because I played it, right. And I think about how every position on the field has a part of that play. And when somebody’s doing or playing their role in that individual play, then that play works, right when everybody is is tied together, doing the things that they need to do. Period. And football. Yep, position coaches, and you have positioned coaches so that they can practice, you know, and really zero in on those those individual characteristics like catching the ball or hitting the hole when you’re running or blocking, whatever it may be, you need to do this in your business. I’m sold on it 100%. We do it here. It helps us be better.
Eric Watkins 15:59
Eric, what do you think? Yeah, I think this is super important, and has been probably our little secret recipe for success. And I think the the first thing is, this is not for businesses that don’t want to grow. The whole point in doing this is so we can scale our business. And you’re gonna have different people coming into the business. And without repeatable processes that have proven to be effective, you’re not going to be able to scale your business. And then the first thing I want to address is people are probably out there listening, saying, Well, I trust my employees, I don’t want to micromanage my employees, I just want to give them a result. And I want them to hit that. And I want to go back to work, teaching you how to go from zero to 50 million, like that got us to $10 million, don’t get me wrong, that did not get us to $20 million, to get to 20. To get to 30 to continue to go from there. You have to put processes in place, make sure they’re happening and make sure they’re repeatable, because people say, Oh, that’s micromanagement. Well, micromanagement really, to me, is managing the details. And if you’re a process oriented company, you need to manage the details, to be able to repeat that success. Don’t confuse this with I have to be looking over your shoulder every second, this can be a positive thing. If you’re running the process, how its intended. I’m giving you kudos, and we’re high fiving. And it’s a, it’s a great time. If I have to talk to you about you not running the process, you’re really micromanaging yourself, because you’re making me have that conversation. And I think that some people are uncomfortable with that. But that is where your business hits that point where you just take off and you go to the next level, because you can bring new people on and they can get up to speed quickly. Because you’re doing things over and over. To go
Jeff Winters 17:47
from zero to 50 million, you have to have so much quantity, you’re going to need more people, you’re going to need more sales, you’re going to need more marketing your nucleus of people that you’ve worked with, if you’re an entrepreneur CEO president is going to expand and to get to 50 million, you’re not going to know people. And so you’ve got sort of one of two choices as you start to get to scale. Choice. One is you get to some point, whatever the revenue level or number of employees is, and you look back and go, Oh my gosh, wait a minute, we’re doing we’re doing that that way. Whoa, no, no, we can’t do that. Let’s fix it. That’s the reactive way. What Scott’s talking about as a proactive way, which is at every stage in every area, we’re going to have a really high standards. And, and I always liked this phrase, we’re going to have a quality friend at the quantity party. We’re gonna have a quality friend at the quantity party. And if you have a quality friend at the quantity party, you’re going to proactively make sure that you don’t lose the standard of whatever department facilities, sales, marketing, whoever, whatever department it is, if you have a quality friend at the quantity party, you’re going to maintain your standards proactively. And because you don’t know yet like as you’re growing you don’t know how unruly and unwieldy things can be. You cannot you can’t just depend on people because you’re just too big is just too too too big proactively Quality audits, quality friend quantity party.
Scott Scully 19:13
Great points. Guest we’ve talked about this a lot. I’m going to make another point and we’ll we’ll move on when we talk about Chick fil A. And everybody’s talked about how if you go through a Chick fil A drive thru, it’s the same experience period. And somehow you’re there’s a mile long line and unlike four minutes, you’re through it with friendly people and you get hot food that tastes the same in North Carolina as it does in, you know, Iowa. You can’t grow and mass like that and have that many locations without having processes nailed down and quality audits and checks to make sure that standards are being met. And I think that whether you’re a manufacturing business or you have software or you’re a restaurant, it doesn’t matter. Everybody needs to roll up into that. Everybody needs to have processes in place in unity, check that quality. And if you do, then you can be repeatable. And you know, you were hitting on something, Eric, I think that’s important. I think that to where you’re going, if you’re going to grow, and you want and you want to add more people, you have to have that nailed down so that it’s that much easier to train those new people to write, like, here’s the job, here’s what we expect. Here’s your things we’re going to peer into and look at to help coach. And then most of the time, like you said, it’s an opportunity to really praise people and make them feel good about what they’re doing. And that everybody wants clear expectations. What’s my job? What’s success? That’s actually probably the biggest part of this. Right? Right. People are so damn confused. Whoa, wait a minute, what do they want me to do? Like I just had discipline, I don’t understand, this nails down exactly what you want somebody doing none, it’s consistent check in. So you have the opportunity to praise somebody for really good work, and show them how they roll up into the entire organization. So get those quality processes in place, and audits. And we know that you’re going to be just that much more successful going forward.
Eric Watkins 21:13
I would say the one last thing as we’re talking about this, that hits home is then when you promote individuals, if you’re grown as a business, you’re probably promoted internally, promote people that are doing the process in the way that you want to replicate it. There will be anomalies of high performers that maybe do things a little bit in their own way. And if they’re getting really good results, you probably leave it there in some cases, but that’s not the person who’s going to make the best leader at the next level. I think that’s really important to keep these things in place.
Jeff Winters 21:42
You really last word, and I’m on his topic there.
Scott Scully 21:45
That’s good, though. That’s good. That’s why we’re here. Yeah,
Jeff Winters 21:48
sure. To tell you if I had a quality
Eric Watkins 21:50
audit for this episode. Would you call that out? And
Jeff Winters 21:52
I’d let that man finish his topic. Last Word
Scott Scully 22:00
is the COP is a cop all
Eric Watkins 22:01
the way through the cop all the way through?
Mining for Growth Gold
Scott Scully 22:03
All right, we are now to Mining for Growth, Gold. I know a lot of you have been waiting for this. You’re there, you’re wanting to increase sales, and yet just want more sales meetings, and you don’t necessarily know how to get them. That’s why our man Eric Watkins is here to bring the heat.
Eric Watkins 22:20
All right. I have a great one today. And it’s going to be in the area of SEO. So Google runs everything. We understand that. Why do people use Google? Typically, because they have a problem or question that they want answered. So it’s really been common knowledge that in order to increase your keyword rank, you need to be the best at answering people’s questions. There’s a variety of factors, where you’re located, what your reputation is, etc. But one of the biggest things that’s been tracked is bounce rate. So when someone comes to your website to get a question answered, get a problem solved. And they read it. Do they stay there? Or do they just bounce right away? And what Google is doing into 2023? It’s not just about keywords alone anymore, you have to be better even better about getting that question answered. And it’s a newer term called dwell time. And dwell time specifically, is the amount of time somebody spends on your website before going back to the original search. So bounce rate, they can go anywhere, but now they’re tracking how often did they come to your website? And then you were so bad at answering the question or problem that they had that they went back to the original search to be able to do that. And I think simply the too long do not read version of this, is you need to write content that’s really, really good at answering people’s questions. So you need to think about why would they click on this topic? What question are they trying or problem are they trying to solve? And how does my content relevant to solve that problem? What do you guys think about that?
Scott Scully 23:57
I love it. Because there are so many ways or I guess, as we go on year by year, Google gets smarter, right? But there were a lot of ways to trick Google to say I’m the most relevant resource for you in your local market. And now the fact that, sure, you could do that. But once they land, they’re going to measure whether or not you actually answered the question, basically, because they went back to the search and searched for, you know, other resources. I think it’s awesome. Of course, there are decision makers that want to you know, check out three or four other websites before making a decision. So it’s not it’s not that some you know, someone can’t go back to original search because that’s not necessarily a bad thing. But it is bad if they hit your website. And they’re not dwelling if
Eric Watkins 24:52
it welling, right, I love them. Love the word.
Jeff Winters 24:55
I always thought the word dwelling referred to like the amount of time you spent on In a restaurant after you paid your bill, which should be 00, I want to I want to pay my bill before I finished my entree. But here’s the way I think I think about this. And we think about this. When you’re writing content, I think a lot of people write content for their site, they chalk it full of keywords, and they want to make it just interesting enough, but they don’t want to give away their secret stuff, not the good stuff, we got to keep the secret stuff, you got to give away the good stuff. You have to give away your secrets and your look at this podcast. Like, we tell you everything we tell you all the secrets to the business, how many calls you got to make, how to make the calls, how we do quality audits, I mean, we tell you all the good stuff. Quick, quick interpretation, quick action, give away your secrets, people aren’t gonna copy your business, it’s harder than you think. Give away the good stuff, you’ll answer people’s questions. And people will stay on your site and Google will reward you and leave after you pay your bill
Eric Watkins 25:55
and leave FTP. Most importantly, yeah, it’s, you know, when you think about Google, they’re spinning billions of dollars to figure out how to become smarter every single day. And theyre, we’re under representing how good they are at tracking if you’re writing relevant content to answer people’s questions, but that’s the problem they’re trying to solve every single day. Because make some more money in the long run. Imagine that,
Scott Scully 26:21
to try to simplify it for people that are if you actually if you’re out there, and you’re like me, you kind of get pissed off about SEO, because it almost seems like black magic, and everybody has a different opinion. And that’s why, you know, Eric is trying to simplify it by saying, look, the only reason Google exists is you have a question or a problem, you want an answer. They wanted to build something where you could go ask the question, and they want to serve up the most relevant resource closest to that person. And they get smarter and smarter on how they do that. And this is just now you get served up. And when they get there, they want to make sure that on your website, you’re doing a really good job of taking care of that person answering their question. And one way to measure that is how long they hang out before they go back and search for the same thing again. And I love it. Watch for it, put it into place.
Eric Watkins 27:17
And honestly, it’s the you know, the last, the last thing is you, you should not do this internally if you don’t know what you’re doing. And I’m not saying you have to use abstract. But this stuff is changing every day. And it’s getting more and more complicated. And I think it’s something you either bring in an expert and pay the money to bring it internally or that that’s going to commit to continue to learning every day, or you get you have to outsource as part of your business. Or you’ll be left in the dust
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 27:43
love putting into play. All right, next, now you have more leads, you gotta be able to sell them. That’s why we go to Jeff, for the
Jeff Winters 27:54
Tales from Sales, sales, Tales from Sales. You know, what I’m hearing a lot of out there, and I have forever the stuff with sales is always the same. It’s crazy. It’s like, Scott, you know, decades. How do I drive urgency in my sales process? How do I drive urgency in my sales process? Can I just send an email every hour checking in circling back circling the wagons checking in circling back? No, that’s not how you do it. We’re gonna give you a give you a way that we’ve we’ve done it here. And Scott, I know you’ve done this in other businesses. And it’s been really successful. It’s not easy to implement. But it’s a simple concept. The concept is scarcity. So there’s only a certain amount of something and you either have to buy or someone else will it is, is it is a finite amount. And in this particular example, we’re going to use geographic exclusivity as the scarcity. Example to drive urgency. And geographic exclusivity is a business changing strategies. You can’t just implement this tomorrow. But on the road from 10 to 50 million, there’s probably a lot of people who are at the more of the beginning stages, and could still do this. And say we’re only going to select one company in a given in this case, like I said, geography but it could be industry or it could be size or whatever it is. And it’s a great way to an in a genuine fashion. Drive. urgency because either you Mr. And Mrs. Prospect are going to buy this, whatever it is this geography or this industry and we’re not going to sell it to anyone else, or someone else is going to do it and I don’t know who it’s going to be but somebody is going to sign this contract before the other person and that person is going to to get this market or industry or all to themselves. I’ve, I am new to seeing this, I have seen it work it. Scarcity drives urgency, this subset of scarcity drives incredible urgency. It’s, it’s, it’s something, it’s something to see. And an interesting tactic if you’re looking at your business strategy and driving urgency is something on the docket of problems to solve.
Scott Scully 30:25
I’ve been part of three significant sales teams over the last 30 years. We’ve used it since the beginning. And we’ve literally had growth years year over year, every single year, if there’s a way for you to do it, if you’re starting a sales department, figure it out, if you’re in the middle of it, figure it out. And like you said, it could be, we can only implement five new clients this month. It could be we only have room for five healthcare clients. It could be so many different things. But you’ve got to have something where people feel like it’s a club, there’s limited membership. If I don’t get it, now, I’m missing out. You have to and if you do that, you will be surprised at how your close rates skyrocket and how your sales soar.
Eric Watkins 31:20
And I would say the the one thing to make sure when you’re doing this, when you’re solving this, what is the scarcity going to be make it genuine, make it real, because our sales reps, you got to talk to your sales reps. They know they’ve lost deals, they lose deals every month, because of exclusivity and scarcity. And so when they talk about it, it’s real to a client in you can’t come up with something fake and it come across and it that just will fall flat.
Jeff Winters 31:48
Prospects can feel when it’s fake. Yeah. But when it’s real, and it works. It’s unbelievable.
Scott Scully 31:57
With us, right? There’s just so many stories of sales reps and look at we can only represent one HVAC, or mechanical contractor in this market. We’re interviewing six or seven of the top folks like yourself, we’re trying to close the market within two weeks. We do that that happens, like it just happened in Cleveland, it just happened in Toledo. It’s going to happen here as well. We’re having a good conversation, I would suggest that if you want to partner with us that we figure out how to wrap this up now because there’s a couple guys next to me having conversations, the market is going to go and you know, and then people won’t believe it, the prospect won’t believe it. And then all of a sudden, they decide they want to do at the markets gone. So it is very real in the way that we use it. And then when that happens once or twice, then the sales rep gets even more belief around it. And they’re just that much more powerful in their messaging and collecting a sale faster. I just love it.
Eric Watkins 32:58
Good stuff. Tales from sales
To Do or Not To Do
Jeff Winters 33:00
tales from sale. Look at Ohio. Close Toledo because
Eric Watkins 33:04
some would say we’re going into Milwaukee to
Scott Scully 33:06
somewhere. Milwaukee is my favorite test market. So now we’re closing, we’re closing out with some fun, Eric, what do we have today
Eric Watkins 33:16
we have to do or not to do to do or not to do and I have a great one to start us off. There’s been a lot of hype going on. The USA soccer team has made it into the final 16 A lot of a lot of people didn’t think we could do it. Here’s the deal. They are 33. And not that we condone gambling on this show. But this is important question you need to hear it because we’re trusted sources and you need to hear it from us. They are 33 to one to win the national art to win the World Cup. So for those of you who don’t know how that works, you bet $10 You win $330 Did you just use a calculator? I did. I
Jeff Winters 34:01
were you included in the for those of you who don’t know,
Eric Watkins 34:03
for those of you I was a lot of people are betting the USA they’re betting with their hearts. They’re not necessarily betting with their minds. But is it the popular thing do you do you put a little bit of money on the USA to make that victory so much sweeter when they end up winning the world cup? Jeff, we’ll start with you.
Jeff Winters 34:22
First of all, I don’t condone gambling in any form, especially on the show or outside of the show. And there’s many states where this is illegal. So for those of you in those states, you should abstain. should abstain. Is that your
Scott Scully 34:34
is that part of your one? 800 Yes, off period. This
Eric Watkins 34:37
is not financial advice,
Jeff Winters 34:38
not financial. I’m not a financial advisor. My
Scott Scully 34:40
name is Jeff. I’m addicted to gambling.
Jeff Winters 34:44
I am not a financial advisor. But if I were and I hate to say this, and I don’t want whatever’s coming my way. Now you got to do it. Yes, you got to do it got to do a particular case in this It’s because it’s national. Now if you know, you went to northwest valley state outside of Lexington, you don’t know is that your college that this is your country? If you can legally gamble, you bet on the United States of America, these colors don’t run. They don’t run, don’t run. They run fast, actually, on the pitch to the goal. But outside of that, these colors don’t.
Scott Scully 35:26
Who are the top three favorites? Well,
Eric Watkins 35:29
the top favorite, or I guess one of the tops, Germany’s eliminated now so it’s crazy this year, but I think France is number one who just lost to whoever, Tunisia or something. It’s all over the map. There’s no I like that’s the part of the reason why you should maybe bet them doesn’t matter. Who knows.
Scott Scully 35:49
You know, there’s a particular individual that I know that bets every weekend. Anything that he can bet on, I would call you’re listening, you know who you are. That’s right, Mike. And he’s one of the like, Jeff would even Jeff even texted me and asked what Mike is betting on this weekend, because he wants to bet on the exact opposite. So you’re probably going to lose your money, you can feel good about putting 10 bucks or 100 bucks on your country and that’s great. Just, you might as well put it on your coffee table, watch the game, put it on your coffee table and burn it. Or, and I’m not one of those people. I know that there are ways where you can hedge your bet bet a couple of other angles, right? And make sure that you cover your losses if you will.
Eric Watkins 36:41
Very safe right say cover your losses with
Scott Scully 36:45
Jeff just get a six pack put a 20 in the coffee table, light it on fire, watch the game with a USA sweatshirt and call it a day mentalism.
Eric Watkins 36:53
They’re gonna win, I believe that we will win. I believe that we will win as well. And you heard it here first on the gross show. Break USA wins free money sitting out there, put it down.
Jeff Winters 37:05
Gamble responsibly, gamble responsibly and responsibly.
Scott Scully 37:07
Okay, well, as always, I think I said this last time. I love our first sections and when we close on not necessarily. Maybe listen to all of our sections and when you get to the do or not to do, maybe don’t follow that 100% That’s my disclaimer. As always, we’re reminding you to be kind of grow and grind. Looking forward to next week. Signing off. Let’s grow.
Jeff Winters 37:42
Let’s grow let’s grow.
Your team members need to know what success looks like every single day. What are the activities / standards that need to be met every day to WIN that day. We’ve tried all kinds of different ways to do this but the one that worked the best is what we call the A-Player Score.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back, grow nation. As always, we are here giving you business growth tips for your journey from zero to $50 million. I’m here with my partners in crime, Eric Watkins and Jeff winters. Very fired up about today,
Eric Watkins 00:17
I’m fired up another good episode bringing the heat, trying to give you some tips, some things to do not to do to hit 50 million in business.
Scott Scully 00:26
Jeff, one of my great pleasures in life, is that you have been you are so proclaimed cop.
Jeff Winters 00:36
This is so funny that you think I find my calling as a guy that trolls people on LinkedIn, you. I’ve done a lot of things in my life. And you’re like totally convinced that this is my seminal moment.
Scott Scully 00:48
I think there are millions of people in the world that are being impacted, because you now are policing the ship pasture.
Jeff Winters 01:00
Ship on LinkedIn didn’t used to be a ship pasture.
Scott Scully 01:04
So we’re heading straight to two truths, and a lie from LinkedIn to truths. And
Jeff Winters 01:12
it’s so hard to go first.
Eric Watkins 01:15
Hey, Jeff, before you go, I know our producer has been giving you some feedback on how hard you’re breathing into the mic. But could you could you just make sure to stay at a at a reasonable distance. And everybody out there? Please listen in close to see if Jeff is breathing too hard. As we’re going through this episode,
Jeff Winters 01:32
can I tell you something, she’ll never hear this because we have millions of listeners. She’s just not one of them. My wife constantly critiques me on how loud I’m breathing. And I’ve always thought this whole time, it’s just because she’s like, done with me. So just try to hold your breath as long as you can. And we’ll figure out the rest of it. But that was my working theory. But now I’ve been told, by the way, try this. If you’re in the audience out there trying to have somebody tells you you’re breathing too loud, and you want to fix it. That’s a very hard thing to fix. That’s not like getting a haircut like now I’m focusing on how much and I’m breathing. It’s a difficult thing. All right. So let’s get just get right into Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn. We have some fun, but it’s important. LinkedIn used to be a play wasn’t a ship pastor hasn’t always been a ship. It’s not all shit in the pasture. But some of it is a ship pasture because people have come up with the strategy that the way to win in sales, the way to win in business is push out stuff on LinkedIn. And let me say this, all recommendations are not created equally. And that’s what we’re here for. We’re here to separate the stuff that you should run back and take to your business and implement tomorrow, versus the stuff you should cast off. And today, I think we’ve got some really good ones I want to start. And I want to get the name right. I think it’s Sybil to HAR and Sybil says, don’t expect 100% productivity from a new employee, if you’re giving them 1% training. Don’t expect 100% productivity from a new employee if you’re giving them new training. This is for everyone. Because we all have new employees. Right now, this is very topical, there are lots of new employees, and people. So underestimate how much training even experienced newer employees to your organization need. And we do it in the budgeting process when we expect salespeople to be at fully ramped up and able to sell their quota too fast. We underestimate it with accountants, we underestimated it and finance and customer success and facilities. We just did. Yeah, we’re gonna hire them, and they’re going to shadow somebody, and they’re going to know their job. And that is not true. You need to invest protect all the time and training, particularly on the front end. This drives me crazy. I hate this. You must must must invest in training new people, or don’t expect them to be great, because that’s that’s the rules. This one’s a
Scott Scully 04:09
hard one for me. I have two comments. First of all truth. It’s hard to argue that if you had better training that you couldn’t have somebody ramp up faster. Right. That’s so of course, I think that that’s a good post. But now I want to I want to talk to the individual contributors out there. Do not make it an excuse that your company doesn’t have great training. Oh, that’s a good point. I hate hearing. That’s a good point. Like look i A lot of us came from. Well, I mean, we were entrepreneurial right in the beginning stages of something. There’s just not a lot of things laid out for people and the ones that have moved the fastest and that’s organization that were here in the beginning were the ones that helped us and help themselves. If you’re an individual contributor out there listening, whether you’re coming When he has good training or not, it is on you to go figure out your industry, your job, your position and be the best that you can be. By the way, if you do that, you’ll be invaluable, though you’ll get shoved to new heights in your organization. But of course, have the best training that you can have as an as a company.
Eric Watkins 05:18
I agree with everything that Scott said, and I agree that this overall the post is true, I would say, with your training, the only way to know if it’s good or not, is if it’s the same every time and you have it built out. And there’s a process that they go through. And then there’s very key results tied to that training. So if you’re just bringing somebody in and saying, All right, go get them talk to Jeff, he’s the best at this. He’ll he’ll show you the ropes, then you don’t know. I mean, you’re obviously that training is not good. But you got to continually evaluate that.
Scott Scully 05:52
truth, truth Truth,
Jeff Winters 05:53
I can’t say, I’ve ever felt more passionate about this next truth. And I’m going to divert this is not a business truth. It’s not a business truth. It’s on LinkedIn. But it is a truth that needs to be shouted from the heavens. Comes from Samantha McKenna. I have adopted a travel habit over the years, every time I exit the plane, I thank the staff and try to shout loud enough for the pilots to hear me. And almost every time I exit my lift, I specifically say thanks for getting us here safely. Thank your pilots. The crew on the airplane. You’re lifting Uber drivers. These people have incredibly hard jobs. They’re getting you where you need to go safely is a truth. And it’s important. And we have business travelers out there and business travelers back and it should be back. Thank your pilots. Thank the crew on the airplanes. Thank you’re lifting truth. Truth,
Eric Watkins 06:53
I hate flying, I will kiss the pilot if they get me there safely. I am a gift I
Scott Scully 07:00
can’t wait to fly with you next. I’m gonna hold you to that truth, truth.
Jeff Winters 07:06
And now this post is the reason this segment was invented. This one This one it’s like indisputably wrong. And I might. I am an expert on very few things, as you all know, aside from hard breathing, and maybe that’s it. But I do know this
Eric Watkins 07:27
fad diets,
Scott Scully 07:28
this, this person is going to be in jail for having time
Jeff Winters 07:31
Kevin, put up one of those scrollers on LinkedIn, you know, which I really do. I’m very hooked on the scrolling. I’ll scroll through anything, like one of those, like, side by side, a little teaser, you know, it’s like gives you like a little bit and it’s like, oh, and then next and I go oh, yeah, give me the next. And he’s talking about calls to action. In emails like prospecting email. So this is, you know, you everybody send him prospecting emails. It’s your sphere of greatness. Again, this and this and loud breathing. How many millions of emails do we send, send approximately 9 million a month for ever. But Kevin says, never asked for 15 or 20 minutes. Nobody has the time. There are 10 other salespeople hitting them up that day for 15 or 20 minutes on their calendar. That’s wrong. That’s just wrong. Like that is a that is a wrong thing. Like if people take that, like at the bottom of your email, you’re sending a prospecting email, suggesting that you should not ask for 15 or 20 minutes because it’s not going to work. What should did he say what you should ask for? On this one, it said who would be the best person to chat with and this particular in this in this like in this carousel? Yeah, he’s analyzing a particular email. But like I think the broad recommendation is never He says never asked for 50. That is just so wrong. We
Eric Watkins 08:55
set like a zillion appointments a month while asking for
Jeff Winters 08:59
20,000 A year 20,000 A year. And that advice is bad. Like that is bad advice. I’m not saying you shouldn’t mix up your call to action at the end of your email. But he says never and that is bad. And if people do that they will get less meetings. We scheduled 20,000 a year. Bad advice,
Scott Scully 09:18
Kevin. People who say that about cold calls to to not say that, right. So how long is is Kevin in jail?
Eric Watkins 09:28
Do you think LinkedIn will give you the ability to suspend accounts you’ll be that sought out as the Sheriff of LinkedIn. I could see that happening. I
Jeff Winters 09:37
don’t want to say contacted me from LinkedIn corporate. But let’s just say I may have some special privileges.
Eric Watkins 09:46
Okay, I like it.
Scott Scully 09:48
Again, thank you.
Eric Watkins 09:50
Thank you. That’s important sheriff.
Scott Scully 09:52
Thank you Sure. See, and it will there will there be a LinkedIn is Most Wanted. Oh,
Eric Watkins 09:59
oh ads.
Jeff Winters 10:00
Now we’re talking, that’s a carousel like number one most wanted. So when
Scott Scully 10:05
we make our posts on LinkedIn, maybe we should put out into the world. LinkedIn is most wanted, Kevin is now at the top of the list. Kevin, you’re a liar.
Jeff Winters 10:15
Don’t ask for time, right? Lie, don’t lie.
50 for 50
Scott Scully 10:20
Okay, we are at the 50. For 50. Again, we’ve had 30 years of business experience, year over year growth, certainly made mistakes along the way. But in this section, we’d like to talk about the 50 things that we would implement no matter what we would bet on these things. Take them to the bank. Here’s the next one. And a player score, we implement an A player score, which basically is made up of the top metrics, things that are most important within each position in the building. We do that, because we want to provide total clarity in what a job well done is daily, weekly, monthly. There are 1000s of businesses that have an annual review, right that that’s pretty much when somebody hears whether or not they’ve done a good job, when they’re sitting at the table, they go through the review, they get their three, four or 5% raise or not based on their performance. Nobody wants that anymore. They want transparency, they want to know how their position rolls up into the success of the organization. They want to know right now, what a good job is, and what success looks like. So you have to have an A player score for every position in the building. If it’s a sales position, it might be prospecting dials, number of appointments, pitches, held, close, you know, show rates, close rates, revenue, if it’s somebody that’s answering the phones, it could be time to get to the phone, dropped calls, quality on that call, routing somebody to the right person to answer their question, you know your business better than we do. But you’ve got to look through your organization, make sure that you line out top processes, put a score around those top processes and give somebody that score. On a daily basis, we use Salesforce. So you know, to automate it. You all have different CRMs I’m sure that you use. If you have any questions about setting up an A player score, by all means, on the side, get a hold of us, we’ll walk you through it. But guys, wouldn’t you agreed like just somebody knowing on a daily basis, what success looks like what you expect out of them. And then having that opportunity to be able to celebrate that person in real time is super important. And a huge part of our success.
Eric Watkins 12:56
Absolutely. Absolutely. And this ends the debate over, you know, am I being effective, you know, I’m doing you know, the person who’s getting their job done in seven hours, and they’re absolutely crushing it from this a player score versus the person who’s working 12 hours and not hitting any of their metrics or results. I think that I think it solves that debate. And it shows who’s being effective and efficient with their time. I love these tips. Because all these tips, again, are not for companies who don’t want to grow their business, right. So the a player score, we want to hit results, not just this month, but next month, the month after that, and the month after that. And what I love about this score, is it’s the perfect mix of leading and lagging indicators. Most people really lean heavily on the lagging indicators, the ultimate results, the sales number, but you got to be looking at the close rate the pitches held the prospecting dials, because those are the things that are not just going to pay off this month, but months in advance. And I think that’s super important.
Jeff Winters 13:58
It acts as not not another manager but it acts as this, like reference guide this accountability partner. It’s every it’s all of those things because what you have to avoid at all costs is I don’t know how to be successful my job. Nobody told me what I needed to do be successful. My job, you have to avoid that at all costs. And for some people, no matter how many times you tell them, that it just it evades them and eludes them. This is the ultimate Wait a minute. This is what you have to do to be successful at your job. And I think people try to oversimplify jobs, sometimes we’re gonna look we got to give somebody one metric. No, you don’t stop that. You don’t need to give somebody one metric. Because to Eric’s point, if you give them one metric, then you you’re fighting it out, and then your exact meanings about whether it’s a leading indicator or lagging indicator. You have to have both. You have to have a way to incorporate both. That’s not burdensome, that’s not hard to calculate and then ultimately rolls up into one metric of success that people can know instantly. Am I doing a good job or not? And like the annual review of the annual review is useless in the app. sense of intermediate checkpoints for why would I call you and go? Hey, I just want to let you know you did a shit job this year.
Eric Watkins 15:05
Yeah. Cool. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah. And I saved it up all year to tell you right at the end, I wanted to let you know now
Jeff Winters 15:11
you did a shit job. Oh, cool. That’s, that’s helpful.
Eric Watkins 15:15
Right? Yeah. Or, hey, wanted to let you know you did a great job. Yeah, well, unfortunately, I left your company three months ago, because no one recognized for the hard work I was I just realized
Jeff Winters 15:25
Nice work. Yeah, dummy,
Scott Scully 15:28
the annual review. And less, it’s a wrap up of all of the conversations that you’ve had throughout the year, and just an extra opportunity to, you know, review those things that they should already know, the annual review should be eliminated if it doesn’t do that. Alright, I’ve been thinking about this section. And I know that nobody likes homework. But here’s how I feel. If you’re going to murder growth, I’m going to give you homework, and each one of these episodes, here’s my homework. Sit down. When you get 1520 minutes, think about the different positions within your organization. And write down the top five most important metrics for every single position in your building, and then rank them, rank them and see where you’re at. That’s your only project for now. But I think you’re going to understand after doing that exercise, why you need a player score, because there are going to be some people that are not where you need them to be for success. And there’s also going to be some positions that I bet aren’t clearly defined, because it’s super hard to actually come up with that score. That’s your homework. Take it to the bank. So with that we head into mining for growth gold. With Eric, what do you got today,
Mining for Growth Gold
Eric Watkins 17:00
mining for growth gold. So today, I have an oldie but a goodie. You know, I a lot of things, you know, I may feel like they’re common knowledge, because I’ve been around it for so long. But I think a lot of people who are starting out or doing this themselves, they may not know these things. So today, for cold calling, what we’re going to be talking about is closing assumptive li with two dates and times, there’s two parts of a call that are really uncomfortable, especially for people that aren’t experienced in cold calling. That is the intro because you’re interrupting whatever they’re doing in the day. And that is the closing asking for the appointment. So two super, super crucial parts of the call that you should know, like your ABCs like your pledge of allegiance. So a lot of times what happens? People have a great comp, great intro, get them invested into a good conversation, have a great conversation, and then they get to the end. And they’re like, Well, you know, Jeff, I’m not sure if you would maybe potentially want to meet with us. Maybe next week. I don’t know if you have any availability or not. A lot of Mother Mae eyes very tentative. Like, I’m not I’m not sure if this would be best, but would you be interested in? Okay, if I’m Jeff, and I’m sitting there, I’m already not interested based on the way that you’re asking me because it doesn’t sound like I should be interested. Right. So the assumptive part is super important. And then we coach to use the assumptive part with to date. So here would be an example, Jeff, based on what you shared with me today, I think it would make a lot of sense for you to sit down with Scott, to talk about how you could improve your sales pipeline for your organization. He actually has time next Thursday at one or Friday at two, which of those would work best for you. So that did a couple things. One, typically, what the prospect is going to say there is they’re no longer objecting to the appointment, they’re objecting to the top, which is semantics. From that point. I can take that, you know, now we’re just finding the best time on the calendar, very easy problem to solve. And I’m doing it as subjectively it sounds like Jeff should be sitting down with us. So I think this is really important. It’s something super simple. There’s a couple different ways you can do it. Jeff, are you a morning or an afternoon person? Do you like meeting before after lunch? Different things like that to just get them focused to object to the time and then that’s the easier problem itself?
Scott Scully 19:29
Eric, you know what, I think the most important part of this is just getting back to scarcity. Like we used to teach this a lot. And it was you know, it’s when we’re calling in the auto industry, right? It’s like there’s it’s a big deal when we were using scarcity, not only an exclusivity and a niche, but time. That’s like Oh, all right. We’re in Cleveland next Tuesday and Wednesday. pretty booked So far, we have four of the six of you lined up in the Nissan Nissan franchise. Looks like Eric has eight on Tuesday. And let’s see, if we could probably do a three on Friday. Which one of those can we put you into? Don’t don’t want you to miss out on this opportunity. It’s amazing. The how that Scott this the appointment skyrocket? Oh yeah. So it’s got to be. If you’re calling me to schedule a time and I’m trying to find a bucket to fit him in to then that person’s not thinking oh, yeah, cuz that’s the mistake people make. They’re like, well, could you meet Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,
Eric Watkins 20:45
we’re wide open, do you want to do work? Or do we have to talk to new reps about that all the time? We could meet when do you want to? Whenever you want to meet a
Scott Scully 20:56
man, imagine how you feel if someone’s calling you to set an appointment, and they’re having a hard time finding a slot to fit you in, you’re like, oh, shit, maybe I shouldn’t meet with this person. They can’t even find two different time periods in the next week to fit me into.
Eric Watkins 21:10
It’s also real black. A lot of our partners too are busy and they’re running their businesses. They don’t have a whole lot of like, right? It’s important. Yeah.
Jeff Winters 21:18
And, and I’m getting better. I’m learning I’m not. Manager Ben Tre, I’ve done plenty cold calling, but like the, the ways. And I think one expert thing that I’ve learned from you to schedule and to schedule 100,000 cold call meetings a year is I think the inclination is to push the meeting scheduling to next week or two. What are you doing on the 15th? And it’s the first and it’s that was what I always thought like, hey, book it about a week out? And where I’ve come to learn from you all who are the jet eyes on this? is hey, look, Scott’s Scott’s totally booked for the rest of the afternoon like chock full couldn’t squeegee and even if we wanted to, but tomorrow. He’s got a two and a three. Yeah. Are you totally booked those talks? So so there you go. Like that, to me is is it is something that I’ve learned from you all is a week out is, is you’re gonna decrease your show rates dramatically. Today totally booked. Tomorrow. Got a couple of spots. But for tomorrow. Yeah.
Scott Scully 22:23
I love that you’re bringing this up. And on that other episode, when we’re talking about scarcity, I think the two of them together are super important. And again, you said it’s real, they are busy. But But you can’t just say when do you want to meet? It’s got to be one of those two time periods. But then I feel like an important part of that is why, like, if they don’t book at two, on Tuesday or five on Friday, what are they missing out on? Yeah, like make me feel like I’m missing the concert, there’s two tickets left to the concert. If you can do that, you will set more appointments.
Eric Watkins 23:00
Yep. And here is the hidden value of this. When you close a selectively it is hard to object to what you’re saying. Because I have to give you a reason on why I don’t like it to not just object to the times I have to come back with a reason. So this is why I encourage people to close on every call. Every call you get into a meaningful conversation close, whether it’s gonna be a good fit or not. Because you immediately know where you stand with that prospect. And if the timing doesn’t add up, then at least you have all that information and data for the future. Truth Truth. Oh,
Jeff Winters 23:35
is that the wrong section? Yeah,
Eric Watkins 23:36
wrong section.
Scott Scully 23:37
But it’s true. Total truth. Truth. All right, well, gold,
Jeff Winters 23:42
it is gold gold.
Scott Scully 23:44
Neil. The producer says, now that’s gold. That’s gold, gold. All right. Now you have more leads, because you’ve set more appointments, Jeff, Tales from sales. What do they do with these leads?
Tales from Sales
Jeff Winters 23:59
They close them? And do you know what kind of sales reps, close deals, motivated sales reps, quarters, status, motivated sales reps, close deals. I have the data to prove it. Motivated sales reps, close motor deals and unmotivated sales reps. Neil note that mark it down, put it in the downloadable. And I’m going to share a time honored way to get sales reps motivated. And some of you hate this. But if done right, it works. It will always work. And I’ll give you an example of my favorite current way to to make it work right now. Sales contests, sales contests work, amen to motivate salespeople, but not all of them. Just the good ones. Shitty sales contests still suck and don’t work and you’re wasting your money. And you’re sitting there and you’re going oh, we just paid an extra X amount of money to get this Same amount of sales we would have gotten last month. And that’s probably true. But here’s the reality. The difference between a sales rep pushing for that one last deal are those two last deals, or a difference between a high performing sales rep looking at a mid performing sales rep, and that mid performing sales rep feeling guilty for not getting that last deal or pushing hard enough that you have to somehow find that energy, and sales contests is a great way to create that energy. Here’s an example of a sales contest I’ve loved recently that you could put into play today. And I think your people will absolutely get a kick out of it. So and I stole it from somebody and shame on me for not remembering. What we’ve done is I’ve gotten the names of our sales reps, or our managers, directors, whomever, their partner’s wife, husband, best friend, whatever. And I’ve said, Give me that person’s email address and excluding you, I’m going to email them and ask them what you would want if you hit a goal. And they can’t tell you it’s a secret. And here’s why this is so brilliant, fascinating. It’s this is a study in human psychology. Number one, it’s great. Because this person now knows, like whoever this other person is, knows that their their partner or best friend, or spouse, or whatever, is gunning for this thing at work. And they asked him about him outside of work, which is great. There’s like this accountability, like at home or wherever. It’s also a thing. So it’s probably something that the person wouldn’t buy themselves. And it adds to this general excitement, and it’s personal. It’s something that they care about, not that everyone would care about. It’s a really interesting study in human psychology, you can do it today, it doesn’t have to be super expensive. Tell the other person the Secret Santa, if you will, exactly how much they can spend if the person hits their goal, and they will tell you what the price is that that person wants, if they hit their goal, or if the team hits the goal. It will work. Put it in place today. People are way motivated. When somebody else picks their price.
Eric Watkins 27:10
I love it. As soon as you told me that I immediately stole it and did it and it worked like a charm.
Jeff Winters 27:16
And it’s gold. It’s gold.
Scott Scully 27:18
I love it. What’s the most interesting thing that a spouse girlfriend boyfriend significant other has said like what what is there anything funny that somebody
Jeff Winters 27:30
now it’s not really the best part is Jeff doesn’t ever actually bite? I don’t know I did. I actually just did. I could tell you exactly what who’s a treadmill is the best I loved it. It’s, it’s not nothing is just for hitting a huge goal. It was like, it was a treadmill for this person who runs marathons and stuff in the winter. And the spouse is like, she’s gonna she’s training to run a marathon next year. It’s cold winter, she’s not gonna run outside specific treadmill, and it’s going to arrive at this huge bar. She’s getting a treadmill for hitting this ridiculous goal that we’ve never hit before that point. And we have never hit since that point.
Scott Scully 28:16
Love up so specific to the individual I love right? Yeah.
Eric Watkins 28:22
Nice, nice, good stuff. Tales from sales from
Scott Scully 28:26
sales. Implement that one immediately.
Eric Watkins 28:28
It’s not always the X’s and O’s. You know, I love that. You know, we can give them all the tricks in the book, but they got to have motivated sales reps. Right.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 28:37
So I think I think, you know, the millions around the planet are tuned in for some business growth tips. But some have suggested, maybe they’re just getting through the podcast to get to the section. Because it might be their favorite.
Eric Watkins 28:54
They’re skipping through to this action. Let’s be real. There’s common to to do or not to do I have to put it in there because they’re waiting to hear it to skip to this section. Okay. So to do or not to do. This one will cause fights. People will be fighting over this Christmas holiday season. Everybody likes to get a Christmas or holiday tree in their house. Should you go out and get a real tree? Or should you spend the money and have a fake tree with the lights ready to go everything?
Scott Scully 29:32
This one’s fun?
Eric Watkins 29:33
Yeah, which one? Which one?
Scott Scully 29:35
You’re you know, I’m not even sure you can weigh in on I do have I can
Eric Watkins 29:39
I have my first year as a homeowner with a tree in my house but
Scott Scully 29:43
no kids yet? No kids yet. And so when we talk about this, I feel like there’s going to be a couple of answers, but then the kids will eventually steer the final steer. Jeff’s looking at me like Yeah, well,
Jeff Winters 29:57
I actually really can’t weigh in on this one.
Eric Watkins 30:00
No tree.
Jeff Winters 30:04
menorah it’s amazing. Eight days baby overlaps with Christmas this year to shout out Hanukkah all the Hanukkah listeners to do tree, the tree everyone gets a tree.
Scott Scully 30:24
Let me tell you how I feel about this. You said
Eric Watkins 30:26
secret saying earlier everyone you said, you said Secret Santa and it confirmed that I should go forward with you know,
Jeff Winters 30:34
get out a little bit,
Scott Scully 30:36
not kneel, kneel do not cut this one.
Jeff Winters 30:40
Everyone has the Easter Bunny come to their kids school. Not true, not everyone.
Scott Scully 30:47
This part of the episode. All right, as somebody who celebrates Christmas there’s nothing better than taking your little kid out to a tree lot or if you’re on a farm going out and cutting one down and making it part of the tradition. And then they get older. And you get to a point where your kids are like looking at you fighting on the way to the tree lot. Like are you kidding me? Nobody wants to go cut a tree dad. And that is when you go find the fake tree that looks the most like the real tree so you don’t have to hear the ship. And then there will be a point when they start giving you shit about decorating the tree where you wish that you could put it in wet. Like if you have a big enough home, you would leave it decorated and put it in the closet and pull it out so that you wouldn’t have to hear about going to get the tree or decorating the tree. That’s what would happen. How would you do that? No. I want to though I’ve heard he went through yet one more year of who wanted to agree three. It was amazing tradition. Yeah, it’s bitching you outsource it? No, I do not. You would,
Jeff Winters 31:56
don’t you outsource. I do to be honest with you. I do not outsource decorating to
Scott Scully 32:00
outsource decorating the tree. I make them do it. So that we can get together but it is becoming hard with a 19 year old and a 17 year old. It’s not a fun holiday thing anymore.
Eric Watkins 32:13
I heard of somebody who put a like 20 foot closet big enough to just fit a tree in their foyer or whatever. And they just pop it in, pop it out. sounded amazing.
Jeff Winters 32:26
Not being super familiar with the going to get the tree thing. I always sort of equated it in my head for no particular reason to like go into the pumpkin patch. Like I’m gonna go get a pumpkin I’m gonna carve the fucking thing. That’s gonna be Yeah, but I suspect it’s more it’s more involved.
Eric Watkins 32:42
Yeah, I did my actually first I grew up with fake tree my whole life. And then this past year, me and my girlfriend went and got a real tree. I was like I don’t know I wasn’t sold on it. And then we brought it back and we carried it in the house. I got SAP all over my hands everything’s sticky everything’s there’s I mean I’m smell I know this smell is good. And then it shattered everywhere you know? I was like I don’t know if I’m I think I’m fake tree. I think I’m Team fake tree but I’m gonna go get a real tree one more I’m gonna give it one more year then we’ll see
Jeff Winters 33:17
most people get fake or real
Scott Scully 33:18
trees depends on if you’re like Eric who outsources walking his dog. It’s like he definitely
Eric Watkins 33:26
can’t device it. It’s divisive.
Jeff Winters 33:28
What’s the stat Eric you in your head? What’s the official World statistics on real versus fake tree?
Eric Watkins 33:33
46.5% Fake it sounds right. 53.5% real good topic though. Thanks for your contribution. Jeff. Really appreciate it.
Jeff Winters 33:44
Everyone gets a tree. Well, not everyone,
Scott Scully 33:49
maybe not as always to do or not to do is listen to it or not take the advice or not take it to the bank on our other sections to do or not to do might be just a little bit more about the fun. We’re
Eric Watkins 34:05
leaving it out there shout out Jake Van Hook for giving me that topic to
Jeff Winters 34:09
do or not to do assume everyone gets a tree.
Scott Scully 34:13
Eric has learned guys. We hope you have a good week, reminding you to be kind grow and grind.
Eric Watkins 34:22
Let’s grow. Let’s grow up. Let’s grow.
Dive into the world of customer referrals and how they can be a powerful tool for growing your business. We’ll discuss the importance of building relationships with your customers and how satisfied customers can become your greatest advocates. We’ll also explore the benefits of customer referrals for your team, including improved morale and increased motivation. Learn how to effectively ask for referrals and provide tips for making the referral process as seamless as possible.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to The Grow Show. First of all, I wanted to say thank you to the Grow Nation. Every week, we have more listeners, just more people taking in these these important tips and tricks. And when we started, that was our goal, right? Like the road from startup to 50 million can suck, it can be really, really hard. And that’s why we wanted to do this right to just provide all of this good stuff for free.
Jeff Winters 00:36
This is America, small businesses. And that’s what drives the economy. So drive so much in the way of jobs. And I know, we felt the same way we wish we’d had some tutorial or guidebook to help us get there. So
Scott Scully 00:50
what’s like, I think it’s like 95% of people work in these small businesses, right. So it really does drive the economy. And you know, with half of those gone, within five years, and a good 80% of businesses gone within 10. Like there’s a problem with business structure, and keeping growth alive consistently, year over year. And that’s the reason for this show. And it just feels good that you all are appreciating this content and putting it into action and sharing how it’s working. So just keep doing that. Keep providing feedback, keep telling us what you want to talk about, Hear hear about. And we’re dedicated to continuing the show for sure.
Eric Watkins 01:36
And you know, whatever good economy needs, what’s that,
01:39
once a sherrif.
Eric Watkins 01:46
Takes and lives.
Jeff Winters 01:48
That horse gets better and better.
Scott Scully 01:51
There’s nothing better than Well, Eric’s sound effects. And the fact that you are now the Sheriff of the poop pasture called LinkedIn.
Jeff Winters 02:05
I am excited to be back again with Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn two
Eric Watkins 02:10
truths. And
Jeff Winters 02:12
I liked the polls on LinkedIn. The polls make me happy. It’s data. I love data. And so I want to highlight one truth from Brendan Short, who had a poll out there. And the poll results are, I think, truth with a capital T. So the question for the poll was “do you see product lead growth as a replacement for salespeople?” And product lead growth, just for everyone out there? definitionally is the idea that it’s a business methodology where user acquisition, so getting customers, expanding customers, converting customers and retaining customers are all driven primarily by the product. So it’s sort of like it’s so good, it sells itself? That’s how I would describe it. Yeah. And the poll says, Do you see product lead growth as a replacement for salespeople? By the way, you’re all not here in the studio. Scott’s like, getting his hands dirty. He’s He’s so ready, because his hands are moving. This is good. This is an irritating idea for him. Is this the truth of the lie? This is the truth. 82% I guess maybe this should be 100%. But 82%. Say, No, it is not going to be a replacement for salespeople. And there’s 11% that say, just show me the result. I’m gonna lump them. And so basically 93% think that product lead growth, it’s so great, it sells itself is not going to replace salespeople, and this is 1,000%. True, you can play this in 300 years. And you’re not going to look back and go what a dipshit product lead growth replace salespeople, there’s no more salespeople, there will be salespeople. This is true. Good poll.
Scott Scully 03:51
I like it. I don’t love the polls. I’m glad you do you don’t like polls? I don’t really like
Eric Watkins 04:00
to do or not to do.
Scott Scully 04:02
That is that is that is the question. So I agree it’s a truth. It’s not going to replace salespeople. I do, however, feel like if you have an increased retention rate that you don’t need as many salespeople. So there’s a little bit of back and forth on on this one I salespeople drive a business Period, end of story. It’ll never change. But I do think that the better you make the product, you know, the the easier it is to drive the value of your organization because you can grow that much faster. For instance, like if we were not a marketing company where there was an emotional decision around how good a lead is or isn’t, or my sales process, you know, as it pertains to our retention rate. And let’s just say that our average customer was fiver Six years, then we grow that much in that much more of a substantial way. Right? And we might not need the army of salespeople that we have to do that. But you’re still going to need some. Absolutely, salespeople are never going away forever. And always,
Eric Watkins 05:15
yeah, I think it’s very true. And I would add, part of the reason why I feel like it’s true, is any good product will eventually have a competitor, you’ll never be sitting there by yourself, everybody. If it’s that good, someone else will try to replicate it and do that. And then when you’re in any sort of conversation around competition, no buyer is going to be well versed enough in your product to actually know the difference in the nuance of the two products. 7% of people will the 7% that voted that product centered selling can be a thing. So I just I think always, it’s going to be taking a person to be talking about the results understand the challenges the business is facing and in relate the product to the problem that it’s ultimately solving for the business truth that goes with truth, truth,
Jeff Winters 06:08
truth, not all two truths and a lie. I have to be serious business sales. Sometimes it can be fun, whimsical. Jenny Wen says my love language is DMing co workers a little joke when we’re on the same zoom, and seeing the slight upturn in their expression when they read it. I mean, who loves doing this, this bridge gives me so much joy. This is such a truth for me. I love sending somebody a little text on a zoom or a little DM and then I see him look down or like look at their watch. And they have an upturn in their expression, or they like giggle a little bit. It was kind of like what’s that person? That is also my love language. I think there’s a lot of people whose love language that is, it’s fun. I think this is a truth that it’s enjoyable. And look, you gotta be on zooms you might as well make it slightly less painful than it already is. So truth.
Scott Scully 07:01
It’s gonna be a hard one for me. Oh, I’m way to add to think about performing on a zoom and sending messages on the side. I know you’re looking at me like you’re such an acid. So why don’t you just stop being so serious? Serious? First of all, I hate zooms in general,
Jeff Winters 07:19
right? But if we’re gonna be on it, you might as well have a little fun. Yeah, it’s almost a joke at the zoo. Like that’s why
Scott Scully 07:25
what what if they’re doing what if you’re doing the zoom? What if it’s a sales training? You’re doing the zoom and the salespeople are doing that back and forth? at your expense. When when you’re wanting something to sink in?
Jeff Winters 07:39
This is in moderation. I’m fine with it. Yeah,
Eric Watkins 07:43
I mean, just been getting made fun of his whole life. Yes, he’s, he’s
Jeff Winters 07:46
used to it not a new condition.
Eric Watkins 07:50
My favorite is when people try to do this, but they send to all Oh, yeah, instead of the whole thing. I think we’ve had a couple of those.
Scott Scully 08:00
I have a hard time with this. We’re the link we’re on the LinkedIn pastor, this is a place for good business advice. I want to hear things that make me a better business person better at my job more productive, better, closer, better account manager. I want to network and she’s making a post about how it gives her joy being on a zoom, messing around with her friends. is LinkedIn the platform for that kind of post
Jeff Winters 08:29
actually, therapists getting arrested. But it’s funny you say that it’s actually a repost from Twitter on LinkedIn. So there’s, there’s a I think we all agree it’s a truth now. Some will all agree with. And it’s a lie. I think we all agree this is our probably our favorite part of the episode now. And there’s this comes from Amy and if not, she’s reporting the lie, but it’s so critical that we have to surface it so I don’t blame Amy.
Scott Scully 09:04
She’s passing fake news. She’s
Jeff Winters 09:06
surfacing a lie from others and we have to remediate this is this is bad. What is a reporter
Scott Scully 09:12
on CNBC?
Jeff Winters 09:17
gonna paraphrase some there have been some, there’s been an undeniable shift within her client base regarding their sales and management strategy. She’s noticed two major things in the last 24 months, and I’m gonna focus on the second one. The first part, salaries have grown exponentially. Probably. Here’s the problem. And sales strategies that used to work aren’t as effective anymore. Okay. So so here’s the dangerous problem with this seriously. When sit when sometimes the economy is down or when sales are not going as well. People try to find the new shiny sales strategy that’s gonna work and they change everything that’s worked in some cases for decades in sales, which, by the way, spoiler alert, Scott’s gonna tell you, it still works today, same shit. And they try to find the new sales strategy. And they pivot to the new sales strategy. And it doesn’t work. And they have a whole new strategy that they’ve now pivoted to that is wrong. Just because you’re not selling as much today, as you did last month, it’s probably not your strategy problem. It’s probably your execution problem. It’s not always the fun new strategy, stop changing your sales strategy, because Because last month or last quarter sucked, execute better on the stuff that worked. I think, again, not Amy is just reporting the news from her clients. But if you think that changing your sales strategy from something that worked because things are off for a quarter or a month or whatever is the right play. That’s a lie.
Eric Watkins 11:01
Yeah, I agree. 100%. Because the only reason a new sales strategy, not the only reason I’m don’t want to speak in overgeneralizing. But the main reason a new sales strategy even works is because people believe it works. So part of what you need to do as a sales leader versus changing your strategy, is reaffirm it reconfirming the belief in your current strategy, and talk to them about why it works and why it could and focus on the execution. I agree with that.
Scott Scully 11:34
I think that you have to get behind a sales strategy. And as Eric said, really get behind it. And really market why it’s the best one, show stats, figures. And the adjustments might be things within that process that really good salespeople are using, you know, the language, if you will. And if you’re going to change it, it should be like an act of Congress, like it’s like, there should be a change process with your, especially with your sales process, right? Where it’s really, really hard to change it because you did a lot of things to land on something that worked. And then to just change it overnight. That’s not good.
Eric Watkins 12:29
There’s really not good, there’s so much like, say art within a science or the framework within the framework, there’s so much nuance that you can train on and focus on without changing the whole framework. And you should absolutely start there. So you have maintain that baseline of what people are used to doing and what you know, has worked in the past. And then train on the nuance within,
Scott Scully 12:52
I still think Eric just nailed it. between the eyes. If you think it’s going to work, it’s going to work. Like there’s 12,000 ways probably to have that sales process layout. It’s really about the leader saying this is it. This is why getting everybody jacked up around. It’s like a sports team with particular plays, practicing those plays, and feeling like they’re going to work in believing that they’re going to work, you know, act as if, like, it’s really more about leaving it in place and believing in it.
Jeff Winters 13:26
I just feel like there’s an element of this where people, especially in today’s world, find the new thing, read the new book, talk to the new person, and change their sales strategy on a dime. And that’s where I think people get into trouble. And so that’s where I come out with an add a new piece of software and add new and add 20 new pieces of software and do it totally differently. It’s that’s where I think it’s the lie,
50 for 50
Scott Scully 13:50
lie, lie. And good stuff again, Jeff, the sheriff, there’s less poop in the pasture. Now we’re gonna get into the 50 for 50. And today, it is all about customer referrals. It’s hard to sell. Right? We’ve talked a lot about the sales process, new sales meetings, it’s it’s hard, right? So one of the things that you can do to make it that much easier for your organization to grow is to put the right customer referral program in place, get your really good, happy, satisfied customers selling for you. And you can do that in so many ways. You could you could have it where everybody that’s provided a referral gets to go to the summer concert that you put on, it could be that you give them a discount on their price. It could be that you give them a gift certificate to shop online. If they provide a referral. There’s there’s a lot of different ways to incentivize people to provide referrals. I would suggest that just Asking you’re really good customers, you know, if you’re providing that good of a product or service, your, your best customers will probably tell their friends and family about it anyway. So start with the ask. And then there’s the other group of people that you got to motivate to do it. And that’s where the program comes, comes into play. But this is common practice for us. And every monthly results meeting, every monthly meeting that we have with our clients, we’re telling them that our business grows by, you know, getting them, you know, our satisfied customers to help us in our growth and asking for referrals. And, of course, we’ve put a program in place that helps them in two different ways. Price point wise on what they’re paying us monthly, and also a nice percentage of first month revenue program that we have. You know, what, Eric? Do you think this has helped our growth?
Eric Watkins 15:52
Oh, I, I think it’s immensely helped our growth in a couple of different ways. Yes, it has increased our customer referrals. But also what it is done for kind of a hidden benefit of it, is this gets your account management team, dipping their toes into sales. And specifically in our business, we’re consulting our clients on how to sell so and a lot of them came up just as an SDR and didn’t actually have the opportunity to sell. So this is a great way for our team, to really a understand how tough sales is own a little bit of a sales number. And then we use that as a path to take these individuals, there are our highest performing sales reps for there. So it just gets more people outside of sales focused on your sales number as an organization, which is never a bad thing.
Jeff Winters 16:42
No, it’s not and, and to get tactical for a moment, there’s a difference between asking for a referral and asking for a referral. It’s one thing to go, Hey, Eric, before we jump off, anybody else who you think, would be interested to use our service? Now I gotta run. Okay, by the way, not the end of the world. Least they asked. But it’s different. It’s a whole different thing to come prepared to a call. And go ahead. Before we jump off, you know, I noticed you’re connected to Bob Murphy. And I did a little research on Bob’s software company, and I think we could really help them out. Would you be opposed to to make an introduction? That’s very different. Very diff, that’s very different. Cuz if you say, Hey, do you have any referrals like, then I’m just like, I’m disoriented. I’m racking my brain, and I know a zillion people. But if you center me on Bob, and you’ve done some research on Bob, and you can tell me why you can help Bob, then immediately I’m like, Alright, cool. I don’t have to like a think about this I could get and then just say, hey, you know, what, if it’d be helpful, I can send you a little blurb on us, you could just forward it off to Bob and CC me do the work.
Scott Scully 17:47
I’m so happy that you brought that up. Both of those, right, the importance of growing your sales number by having account managers focused on a referral number. So it’s just this extra bucket of revenue that’s getting generated huge. And just implementing this. This process, like I’m going to, before I meet with a customer, I’m going to go and I’m going to see who you’re connected to. And I’m going to do the Ask Northwestern Mutual teach, is that right? That’s one of their best practices and these people growing, they’re their investment advisor business. Alright, here’s the homework, two things. implement what Jeff’s talking about, you know, talk to your salespeople in your account managers, and suggest that when they’re going to have an interaction that they go out, find a common connection on LinkedIn. And make it easier by saying, I noticed that you’re connected. You could even make the call forum, but the fact that you could say I’m doing business with with Eric, you know, and he said it was okay that I called you to tell you a little bit about what’s going on over there just makes it that much easier, do therefore, implement that as fast as you can. The other thing is, if you do not have a customer referral program in place, we could lay out a lot of different things that you could do. But I think that the best thing for you to do, if you don’t have one is to just go Google top customer referral programs in your particular industry, because they’re so different, whether it’s manufacturing software, whatever it may be. The other thing is, if you do have one in place, which some of you do, not a lot of you but some of you do. Call your customers and ask them if it’s motivating. Call them call your
Eric Watkins 19:39
that’s great. They’ll tell you
Scott Scully 19:41
call your customers and say this is our referral program. My goal was to, you know, help you in our growth process by by encouraging you to provide referrals and to give you a little something for doing that. Does this program motivate you to do that? And I think what you’ll find is there’s some time expect that you’re going to need to make to your existing process. So, you know, you’re out there and you’re thinking, God, I’d love to grow my business, but I don’t have enough sales meetings. And that’s why Eric on a weekly basis brings the gold. What do we got this week,
Mining for Growth Gold
Eric Watkins 20:17
the growth gold, so we’re gonna focus on email. And the topic today we’re going to talk about is email blast, common term has been used for a really, really long time. And a lot of you especially as you’re just getting into it, may realize, hey, we’re not doing any email approach, we need to get some email blasts going out. And one very, very important part of email is making sure your email actually shows up in the prospects inbox deliverability, as we call it. And the common misconception is that you need to blast out, which means I’m going to hit send, and then 20,000 messages are going to go out to all these prospects, you want to get that same impact, get that same reach, but you want to do it in a way where Gmail outlook, they view you as human as this could be a normal sent. So one rule of thumb that we work with here is to never send out more than one email per three minutes. If you send out putting in using an engine, putting in a sequence, to be able to send out only one email at a in a maximum time period of three minutes. But doing that every single three minutes, throughout the day and throughout the sequence. That’s the way you blast to 20,000 prospects and get the highest deliverability.
Jeff Winters 21:44
This will change your life. If you’re doing email right now, or you if you’re doing email, and you don’t know that this should be like a pause the podcast, hit the share button with your whole company, or anyone who participates in the go to market strategy. This is an enormous change in the last 18 months. If you’re using a sales engagement platform, it’s in the settings. One every three minutes a human can’t send out 5000 emails in a second, Google’s pretty smart, they know that you got to space out your emails. This is a major game changer. Gotta do it.
Scott Scully 22:18
Alright, I think it’s all about eyeballs. Right? If you’re going to spend the time and the money to, to market, you want to make sure to have the reach, it wouldn’t be any different if you were spending money buying media on TV, you know, what is the message landing? Was it the right show? Was it the right time period? You know, are you in the middle of the night? Like, is the message actually getting delivered? It’s different, but it’s not. It’s you want impressions? If you’re going to send 20,000 emails, you want to make sure as many of those 20,000 land as possible. So I guess that’s good advice.
Eric Watkins 23:01
Yes, simple fix. As Jeff said, simple fix. This is something you can implement right away. As long as you have the right tools, of course, but have to do it. You have to do it. It’s killing you right now, if you’re not doing this.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 23:14
All right. Eric, always bring in the heat. So now we have more leads. Jeff, how we’re gonna close them
Jeff Winters 23:23
today is not only about how we’re going to close them, it’s about how are we going to make sure we’re closing at a higher rate tomorrow than we are today. And at a higher rate a month from now than we are tomorrow. And do you know how you do that? Training, training, sales reps, trainings get moved or cancelled? More than any other position in the organization? Oh, yeah. Guarantee fact. I don’t even know. I have a meeting I can’t make I got to do a follow up. Oh, it’s the end of the month. Oh, it’s the beginning of the month. Oh, I can’t it’s the middle of the month. I know. You want to move your sales training. You can’t. You can’t sales training is so critical. And here’s why. Because it is a boat that is headed toward a destination and the wind is blowing. And it will go adrift. The sales presentations will go adrift. And all the sudden, you’ll be listening to sales calls. Six months after you did your last training, everybody will be doing it differently. You must commit to sales training. And I’ll tell you, the easiest way to do it is to just listen to calls. If all you do is get all your sales reps together once a week and let’s say you’ve played calls and everybody critiqued and gave feedback, it would be so much better than what the rest of the world is doing. Don’t assume your sales reps are having great calls because they’re closing a lot. Don’t assume your great sales reps are teaching others they’re not. I saw a recent study that said ramp time up of sales of new sales reps went down significantly, based on how many calls new sales reps listened to have experienced reps, you cannot put off, cancel sales training, it’s easy to do it, do it every week, don’t cancel it,
Scott Scully 25:15
I believe in this so much. You guys have known me for a while now. So you’ll probably remember this story. I believe in this so much that I remember a time period where I had a training over lunch. And there was a sales rep still on a call. And I made them stop. And they quit that day. They were so pissed, they could not wrap their heads around the fact that I would make them get off of a sales pitch that they were having to get on our sales training that by the way, they were well aware of for months, because it happened at the same time, every day. And we’ve talked about the fact that sales training is important for their career. And here’s my feeling they had, maybe it was a good call, maybe they lost a sale. But what we were going over in that one hour, in my opinion was going to be more important than that one sell, what we were going over could result in maybe a 2% Higher close rate or hundreds of sales in the future on top of what they were going to do. That’s how much I believe in it. And those of you that are listening might think I’m freaking crazy. But these two can back me up that I am that crazy. And that I do feel that passionately about sales training.
Eric Watkins 26:38
So what you’re saying is there right?
Scott Scully 26:40
I am crazy. Yes. Yes,
Eric Watkins 26:42
I agree with this wholeheartedly, I would say with with the note that it’s on you as a sales leader to make the training impactful. Yeah, don’t bring everybody in a room and waste their time for an hour prep for whatever you need to do to make sure they’re all leaving there with action. And I’m a sucker for some good roleplay as well. So if you’re going to, if you’re going to go over and get the awareness, start working on the action, and how you put it into put into work.
Scott Scully 27:10
Jeff, you brought something up the other day, you actually you gave two really good examples of this. One, one of our sales reps that was closing at a ridiculous percentage. And then two was a sales development representative that was who’s her show rate is obnoxious. Like it’s the best I’ve ever heard of. And you’re like, how hard is it? We’re gonna go listen to we’re gonna go listen to what she’s doing to get show rate. Now we’re gonna have everybody do that, or we’re gonna go see why he’s got such such a good close, right, listen to the sales pitches, figure it out. And then we’re going to teach people to do that. Like, there are things going on in your business, where somebody’s way better at a job than the other person, figure out whatever the hell that is, the salesperson and train on that. Like if you were gonna make it simple, right? If you didn’t have a world class, training organization, look at where things are going. Well highlight that and make sure everybody on the team’s doing that best practice.
Jeff Winters 28:09
It’s not that hard. It’s not that hard. Now don’t expect you’re going to be able to clone your best sales rep. Unfortunately, it doesn’t happen but let me tell you it does happen. Your sales reps who are underperforming will get better if they just do and sounds stupid even say if they just talk the same track. See what I did with the talk track talk the same track, it’s a different way to use that phrase. Track the same top rack the same talk as your top sales reps that aren’t Yeah, listen to your sales have nothing. Track talk. Listen to your sales calls.
Scott Scully 28:41
Thank you. Good advice. Thank
Eric Watkins 28:43
you, Jeff. That sounded genuine, though. Thank you was genuine. You didn’t talk your track. Talk your track. Track your talk track talk.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 28:53
So we are now here again.
Eric Watkins 28:57
We’re here again. This is big going off the rails we
Scott Scully 29:01
I feel really good about our shows maybe up until the to do or not to do because I’m not sure we’re always on the same page. But maybe that’s why it’s fun.
Jeff Winters 29:12
I’d like that to do or not to do as always one episode away from being cut.
Eric Watkins 29:16
Yeah, I’m pretty sure I’m gonna get fired from this section here pretty soon.
Scott Scully 29:20
I just think that it’s fun to disagree.
Eric Watkins 29:24
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there’s gonna be some disagreement Today. Today. Another with another chance can be the whole point of this is how much can I get this group to disagree and I’m doing a pretty damn good job so far. To do or not to do. Snooze your alarm. Jeff, why don’t you start so I
Jeff Winters 29:45
can’t do it. Can’t do it. Look, here’s here’s the deal. Like this just in waking up early in the morning sucks. Like, we trust me like you’re not the only person that thinks it sucks even people that wake up early. in the morning all the time think it sucks. It’s not. I set my alarm for for fortnight in the humblebrag 447 I get up my popping out of bed like wow, this is great. No, it sucks. It sucks and it hurts my head. My body aches and it sucks. But you know what? I do it because I’m setting a standard. If you snooze on your alarm, what else you snooze it on what else you’re waiting another eight minutes and 17 seconds to do nothing. I set my alarm. I get up. I’m an adult. Don’t snooze craft. So
Scott Scully 30:33
many things to say about this. First of all, there are people that absolutely love sleep. Right? That’s so it’s really hard for that group to not snooze. There are people like my son that didn’t even hear the first alarm. Now, I know shit, I can’t make this up. Like he, he has his phone turned all the way up. First of all, he had a notification it wasn’t loud enough. So you didn’t get up. And he literally got almost suspended for the number of tardies. So then, you know, you wouldn’t think you’d have to coach on making sure that the phones turned up then that’s loud, loud enough where you can two floors down here the damn thing going off that set right by his head. But that wasn’t loud enough. So then we got a quote unquote loud alarm clock for the heavy sleeper. Still didn’t work. So at Christmas, he will be getting a package. This exists a for heavy sleepers, a loud alarm clock with a bed shaker. Hitch, it shakes your bed, just to make sure that you get up. My son will forever I believe be in the snooze category. Because then when he does get up, which usually takes me yanking on his leg. He’s like, hey, yeah, and then he rolls over. It’s like gets another 20 minutes goes back to sleep. Right? Um, I I’m with Jeff you. If you snooze, you lose. You’re just creating a habit. Like, if you snooze once, you’re probably going to snooze twice. If you snooze once, you’re probably going to do that every day until that’s not good enough, then you snooze twice, I guess is what I’m really saying. Which starts to impact other areas of your life. I think it sucks. And I And it literally, you have to throw your legs out of the bed, run to the shower as fast as possible and turn the shower and get under the water to wake up and then it’s all fine. So you got to get through three minutes of being miserable. And then the rest of your day is going to couldn’t be better. I feel
Eric Watkins 32:46
okay. You know, I thought I kind of feel like a trailblazer here. You know, I know. Like when Jeff Bezos came out and said, I’d like to get a good full eight hours of sleep a night, you know, and when it gets the you got to get three hours of sleep to be productive. I’m a sucker for a good hybrid option. I like the intentional snooze. And let me explain what I mean. I don’t ever hit snooze on my alarm. However, I have three alarm set. One is the first wake up call. And then I’m actually that’s just I’m turning it off. And then I’m sleeping till the second one. And then I have this immense fear of not showing up or over sleeping. So I set a third safety alarm. So I like the I like the intentional snooze, you get the first one you get you get a nice 10 minutes in between the in between the second one so I go. We just kind of get your mind right for the day. See him on day and you’re ready to go.
Scott Scully 33:44
The line isn’t here. I know what’s happening at your house. And we could call just to verify I think we should yeah. I think the safety alarm is the actual alarm.
Eric Watkins 33:53
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Scott Scully 33:57
he’s lying. A lie.
Eric Watkins 33:59
Do I treat myself occasionally to the treat? treat myself to the safety alarm? Maybe guilty, maybe guilty.
Jeff Winters 34:06
Can I tell you what I’ve been doing? So you’re
Scott Scully 34:08
really really what you’re doing is your real time to get up as the safety time. So you’re just like the process of getting
Eric Watkins 34:17
I liked a process of of not getting up right away. I like easing into it.
Scott Scully 34:23
you’ve scheduled your snoozes This is different. It’s a hybrid.
Eric Watkins 34:27
It’s a hybrid. I want to throw it out there. I’m trying to you know I’m trailblazing a little bit
Scott Scully 34:30
there are people that are snoozing that are already work that’s
Eric Watkins 34:34
not ideal. That’s not ideal when condone that.
Jeff Winters 34:37
How about this? Okay, this is what I’ve been doing lately. Instead of setting news having
Scott Scully 34:42
you live I’ve been setting nobody wants to get up and eat soup.
Jeff Winters 34:46
Hey, running to the showers whole different weird thing I think is idiotic. I’ve been setting not an alarm, but a timer. Not an alarm, but a timer. So I don’t set it for any particular time. But I have set a I don’t set the alarm for any time but I’ll set the timer for seven hours. And it goes off in seven hours.
Eric Watkins 35:06
I like it interesting. It’s interesting. It’s a lot of pressure to am
Jeff Winters 35:11
I don’t go about doing I don’t like that pressure take like 87 grams of melatonin. I fall asleep immediately. Like eight times I don’t by the way, I’m not a doctor. I’m not recommending that don’t take our financial advice or a medical advice blog is it’s a weird pressure to go to sleep to maximize the
Scott Scully 35:33
love your commitment over indulging in every area of your life.
Jeff Winters 35:40
It’s natural. It’s natural. Yeah, it’s fun. Don’t take that advice.
Scott Scully 35:45
Okay, well, to snooze or not just to snooze or not you. You take away from this what you’re gonna take away in your sleep habits. But we hope whatever you’re doing that you’re taking this advice, put it in play and grow in your business. As always, be kind grow and grind.
Eric Watkins 36:06
Let’s grow. Let’s grow.
Sharing customer success stories is one of the most effective tools to grow your business. Not only will it give you an edge with prospective customers, but it will also help retain existing customers and empower your employees. Find out how you can implement this in your business in this episode.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to the growth show where we are sharing business growth tips for those of you that are in the startup mode, or you’re on your journey to 50 million and beyond. Our hopes are that we are providing tips actionable advice that you can put into place to make it just a little bit easier on your journey. Because feeling good today,
Eric Watkins 00:23
I’m feeling great. I don’t think I’ve ever felt better. Now that I’m thinking about it. I don’t think I’ve ever felt better. This might be our best episode we’ve ever done.
Scott Scully 00:30
I’m feeling it. I’m feeling though.
Jeff Winters 00:32
I like I like the lock you came. You came in locked in there for a second Eric, you now that you’ve thought about it, you’ve never felt better.
Scott Scully 00:40
I’m not sure that the grown nation is ready for today’s episode.
Jeff Winters 00:44
The grow nation never disappoints to my knowledge
Scott Scully 00:46
that you’re right about that. You are right about that. We’re very thankful to our millions of loyal listeners. You know what I love? I love the fact that we can jump right into probably the most talked about podcasts segment on the planet. Two Truths. And a lie.
Eric Watkins 01:09
Two Truths and a Lie. I think it is
Jeff Winters 01:10
the most a lot of pressure. Yes. And again, I’ve seen every episode sucks going first, I get no time to ease in. There’s no warm up. I don’t get to stretch.
Eric Watkins 01:19
You don’t need to stretch, I want
Scott Scully 01:21
to stretch you so you want like a warm up back.
Jeff Winters 01:25
Yeah, not somebody that can be a little less funny than me, Hey, kid, I get to
Eric Watkins 01:31
get into
Scott Scully 01:32
I did that for you. I’m way less funny than you. And now you get to be funny. Now that
Jeff Winters 01:37
you say you make a good point here, let me tell you about why or
Eric Watkins 01:40
if that doesn’t want to report to duty, oh,
Jeff Winters 01:44
that is the best you just might be the best you’ve ever felt. Let’s talk about our first truth. What sales skills matter the most, when it comes to closing a deal. Want to know one thing all top reps have in common. They build trust and credibility very, very well, I can pretty much guarantee that the top reps on your leaderboard are seen as an expert. This comes from David Kennedy, founder and CEO of replays, I can pretty much guarantee, listen to this, I can pretty much guarantee that the top reps on your leaderboard are seen as an expert. Truth. Being an expert in today’s sales world as a salesperson is so important. Because it enables your prospects to let their guard down and be a buyer and sometimes even ask you questions as a salesperson about why or how they should operate within their business. You want to buy from someone that knows all the challenges that you truly face, not just someone who is a generalist, you want to buy from someone who knows your business that knows your industry. And why is that? Because you have confidence that they’ve done it before. They’ve done it for other similar to you, and that you’re going to be successful. I think this is a hard truth. If your sellers are not focusing on becoming experts, and they’re focusing on things like the discovery portion of the call, they’re missing the boat, focus them on becoming experts in the industries and in the disciplines of the folks that they saw.
Eric Watkins 03:25
D Do you feel like first of all, at face value agree? But do you feel like you can’t establish trust and credibility on a call without being an expert?
Jeff Winters 03:37
Do I know? Because that’s
Eric Watkins 03:40
the jump he makes here, right? He’s talking about trust and credibility. And then he says, at the top of the leaderboard, they would be experts. And I don’t know if those always go perfectly together. But I would 100% agree that people at the top of the leaderboard are experts at establishing trust and credibility.
Jeff Winters 03:58
Let me go the other way, though. If you’re a seller, and the prospect sees you as like, whether it’s their industry or but like not even an expert in your own shit. Yeah, if they don’t think you’re an expert in your own area. They think you’re just somebody who just started. Those people are not winning. Like I think of our sales. You know, this sales team here sells six $7 million in annual recurring revenue every month. And I look at the top of the leaderboard and what do I hear when I listen to their calls? They are experts. They know their shit. Yeah, they know everything about us. They know about you as a prospect. They might not know where the carburetor is. But they’re experts in their craft.
Scott Scully 04:40
I love this one. But I think there’s something missing. I do agree that they would know the product or service inside and out and preferably know the industry. Probably more importantly, that they are experts in representing the product or service. But actually, I think the people that are at the top of the leaderboard are experts and can paint the picture. Because I’ve seen plenty of people that are experts at the product or service that are at the bottom of the leaderboard. And I think that what’s missing from this post is that they understand the product or service. And they are experts at painting a picture of, I don’t know, if I’m selling, if I’m at, I don’t even know Ticketmaster and I’m selling tickets to the Taylor Swift concert, to a to a group, I’m painting a picture of what it would be like to show up at the concert and stop by and get the drink and be in the VIP row and meet Taylor Swift and be right on the side stage and listening to the concert. You’ve loved Taylor Swift forever. Now you get that personalized VIP experience, then we take you over in a bus and have dinner and like you’re getting them to visualize actually being there or using the product or are getting the service. That’s the person at the top of the board. There’s plenty of people that are at the bottom of the board that know the product or service inside and out. You big T swift guy, I just it’s irrelevant because she it’s like it has all top 10 slots in the frickin billboard.
Eric Watkins 06:12
You can’t admit it. You can admit it to us.
Scott Scully 06:14
I honestly don’t like listening. But it’s I listened to an interview, Howard Stern. I don’t even like Bruce Springsteen. And he was interviewing Bruce Springsteen. What an amazing interview but they were asked him about Taylor Swift and like every artist I think, admires Taylor Swift and how she can write the musician. Hush grits. That’s cool. It’s relevant, but the person at the top of the board’s expert product and service, but they can paint the picture and put you right there in the middle of using it. And either feeling how your business can be better or that problem can be solved.
Jeff Winters 06:52
Do you think Howard Stern, who I love self proclaimed king of all media considers the gross show a competitor? Just honestly,
06:59
probably probably for smile.
Eric Watkins 07:02
Yeah, comment strong I would say I’m just curious.
Jeff Winters 07:06
Next, true, quote, after you schedule a meeting, don’t forget to ask what Steve Richard calls, bonus questions. These are qualification questions post, you schedule the meeting, you got the prospect on the phone, ask some overtime questions, things that will help you have a more productive call things that will help you qualify you got the prospect there, ask some overtime questions after you’ve booked the meeting on your cold call. I never knew about this, okay, until I got to this company. And I heard the cold calls. And it was like you’d book a meeting. And then I’d hear like four or five more questions. And I’m thinking, why would you do that you already booked the meeting. But those questions a the prospect doesn’t really remember answering them. They don’t love answering them. But they are so important to get context and information and nuggets that you can use during the sales call that will help propel you ahead of anybody else that are meeting with and propel you to a great meeting. I say this is true over time, questions,
Scott Scully 08:12
truth, truth, truth, truth, truth, and you’ve got to get the person. Like if I’m the one setting the meeting, it’s one thing but if I’m setting it for someone else, I have to get that someone else excited about going on that meeting. It’s such a good point. And I have to give them enough data to be successful. But I gotta tell you, I think that it’s going to increase your show rate and increase the prospects excitement about having the meeting, if you ask these questions, but because what I would say is, look, in order to come prepared, I don’t want to waste your time. I don’t want to waste mine. I want to have our time be super productive. Let me ask you a couple more things. So that I can be prepared when I show up. They’re going to appreciate that. And you’re going to have a higher likelihood of being more successful in that meeting and having them show up and feel good about showing up because you went the extra mile and asked the extra questions, the overtime questions in which people are afraid to ask thinking that they’re going to piss people off, but it’ll actually make people more excited about the meeting.
Eric Watkins 09:20
And what Scott said is key key key that you have to preface the overtime questions with why it’s important for the prospect to answer because then you’re not bothering them. You’re doing it for their benefit. And the other element of this is if you ask the same questions you’re going to ask in the end, before you secure the appointment, you get different answers because the guard is down we’re meeting like we have booked the meeting on the calendar. Now the guards down and you’re gonna get better answers after the fact. I love bonus questions. Love it. Overtime questions overtime bonus. Great. Crew Right truth, Steve. Good jobs to use Steve.
Scott Scully 10:02
Steve loves the man loves to keep spreading the good news on LinkedIn. Yep.
Jeff Winters 10:08
But you know what you don’t want to spread
Scott Scully 10:12
poopoo the popo?
Jeff Winters 10:15
Justin says it doesn’t matter which week he’s referring to. This is one of quote those weeks in the US, it’s a short holiday week. Everyone has a case of the Friday’s for the few days they’ll be on the clock. So what should we use this week for? Should we use it for reviewing your q1 2020? Whatever plans? Should we use it to deep dive on a project you’ve been putting off? Deep diver project? Or should we use it to brainstorm some new ideas? Here’s, it doesn’t matter. There’s 77 holidays. And I’m so happy people think this way. Because it gives others who actually know that holiday weeks can be great weeks to make cold calls, to sell prospects to ask for referrals. People are not doing nothing in the office during how they’re just not. We have some of our most successful weeks of the year from a prospecting and selling perspective. during holiday weeks. Hell, every year we get deals on holidays, it’s just, this just isn’t accurate. And you got to be careful because if July 4 Memorial Day, I mean, you could go on and on and on with the list of holidays where people are just going to sock it in and not work, you know, their usual with their usual rigor. And you’re losing weeks, if not months of the year, I would not make any assumptions about what people are doing on short weeks
Eric Watkins 11:53
is the lie. That’s a lie period.
Scott Scully 11:55
It’s horrible. It’s a horrible lie. You’re again, I think you ought to start commenting on these threads. You could say that’s awesome. Do we do this 77 times a year like during every holiday thank you for spreading incredible content on LinkedIn by the way you are now on LinkedIn most wanted list. Here’s a link in the garage. Give it a listen. We’re just talking about you. That’ll add to the millions of listeners if
Jeff Winters 12:24
anything it also kill my social life
Scott Scully 12:27
it my horrible post. Thank God, I guess that maybe our competitors read it so that they decide to not make phone calls. But you don’t give everything else up and you’re like, it’s a short week. I’m gonna stop parenting. It’s a short week, I’m going to stop working out to short week I’m going to stop eating short week I’m going to not everything.
Jeff Winters 12:53
Where does that end do like where does that stop? You know, I’ve I heard whether it’s Thanksgiving weekend is is the Friday before you go up. You know people are late. There’s always some people are leaving town. It’s Friday before Thanksgiving. What up? You know how it is Presidents Day weekend, nobody’s back till Wednesday. Just you really get yourself thinking about shit like this. And it’s just wrong. just plow through if you don’t have the data to support that. And even if you do have that data to support that you’re slightly less productive doesn’t
Eric Watkins 13:24
matter. You’re differentiating your someone’s being productive. Someone’s out there doing it.
Jeff Winters 13:28
I’m doing some you’re doing some Yeah.
Scott Scully 13:31
It’s like a little, it’s like a little bit longer drive. You’re four hours and you’re tired. Like it’s a longer drive than normal. It’s, um, pull over. It’s a long drive and pull over and stop driving. Last thing I’ll say on this either.
Jeff Winters 13:44
It’s just an excuse to not do shit you don’t want to do that’s what this is? Yeah, like people will cite this to just not do shit they didn’t want to do anyways. Because it’s a short week or a holiday week or a Tuesday or entrepreneur
50 for 50
Scott Scully 13:53
or somebody that works for somebody else. Somebody that works for somebody else. That’s surprising, isn’t it? Yeah. All right. Again, thank you for being the sheriff. Bringing down those that need to be exposed. More more good work. We now find ourselves in the 5050. This one I think is one of the most important, share customer success. You all are thinking of course. Why wouldn’t I? I mean, make it a thing, make it mandatory, put it into action, put a process of policy into play. And here’s why. Who wants to hear about your customer success. First of all your prospects. They don’t want to hear about why you think it’s better for doctors offices. They want to hear why other doctors offices think it’s better for doctors offices. Okay, so I don’t know if you think about that. But in your sales process if you don’t have really good success stories and ones in particular in industries or segments Do it immediately. Because then all of a sudden, you know, the proof is from someone else not from you, right? Second thing is, your customers, you know, a lot of you may be in industries where it takes a while for your customers to realize the service, you know, to understand just how impactful it is on their business. So they need to hear about other people consistently, right. So you may think that that’s weird that you would share every time you see one of your customers success that someone else is happening, but they guess what everybody wants to be in a club. They want to, they want to join something that’s fun, and feels good. And so if you come with some of that success, you’re going to retain more of those customers. And then probably most importantly, is your people are working really hard. And they want to know that the work that they’re doing is important. So you got to share stories all the time about how they are impacting that customers business. I mean, those are three segments, a lot of times people think about it, maybe just sales, or maybe, hey, I want to make sure our people internally that are doing hard work, understand. You know, but they don’t, I don’t think they think about all three of those. So I think that somebody should put a process in place as fast as humanly possible. For those three reasons, prospects. Customers retain more, and the people to make them feel good about the work to retain them longer as well. What do you what do you guys think?
Eric Watkins 16:39
I think this is huge, because a lot of companies can get the especially growing companies who we’re talking to, can get the disease of me where everything is focused on what is going on internally, and what’s going on with the company and the people and how they’re growing. And it’s all about that, and let’s grow our revenue, and let’s take our profit up, and no one’s talking about the customers. So putting a process like this in place, consistently brings awareness to all the key members of your company of why it’s so important, and why we’re even really here. Because if all of our clients went away tomorrow, we wouldn’t have a business, we wouldn’t be here. So this is what it’s all about. I think it’s crucial.
Jeff Winters 17:23
As leaders in a business, especially entrepreneurs, CEOs, presidents, exec team, you hear this, it gets bubbled to you, in some code, some companies, I suppose doesn’t, but most companies like you hear it, you see it. And it’s easy to think that everybody else is hearing or seeing what you’re hearing or seeing and they’re not. The people in the accounting department are not like think about that. Do you think the the person doing collections and every company has a collections person is talking to the customers who are having no, like, there aren’t just jobs in your business that need to hear all of the great things that are going on with your customers. And I think it’s a big, easy mistake to make. To not remember that everybody doesn’t see what you see, especially if you’re leading the division or leading a company, you must circulate success stories, it matters to people it gets to their why it gets to their motivation. You must do this.
Scott Scully 18:18
I agree. All right, here’s the homework, I would do this exactly. Okay, I would go. And I would make sure to have five really good customer success stories. And then I would sit down and I would share them with your account managers and say, for 90 days, I need you to share these stories with every one of your accounts. Then I would sit down with the sales department and I would say within our sales process, I want you to share these success stories on every one of your presentations, then I would make sure to sit with your entire organization and really celebrate those success stories. And talk about the people that were tied into creating that success. Do that, put those into play, evaluate 90 days later. And I think what you’re going to find is your close rates are higher. Your people are impacted and more excited. And your retention rates are impacted. Take those things to the banker thing.
Eric Watkins 19:21
Do your homework.
Mining for Growth Gold
Scott Scully 19:23
Do your homework. All right. It is time to go find a little gold with Eric what let’s go
Eric Watkins 19:29
mining. We’re gonna mined for some gross gold. And this is in one of my favorite sections, which is the social media section. And often the social media section can be the Forgotten child. You know, people don’t typically think about social and put it at the forefront when they’re talking about driving leads. And what’s really important seems simple but happens all the time is you put a lot of focus on your website, and you write content and you write blogs and Then they go to your website. And that’s where they go. And what you don’t think about is repurposing these to all of your other social outlets cost you very minimal money more to do this. And what does it do increases your brand awareness increases, amplifies the content that you have gets a wider reach, builds your online reputation. And the more your content is promoted, the more powerful it’s going to be. And ultimately, it’s going to lead to driving more leads. So very simply, right now, if you’re writing good content, for your website, in the form of on your pages, or blogs, find ways to repurpose that content and distribute it through your social channels.
Scott Scully 20:45
I think that’s greater a couple of things to throw into that. Why is I guess it’s going to have a minor impact on your SEO and right when Google’s making decisions and who to serve up first are looking at social channels and engagement and ongoing, relevant content. But, you know, what I think people don’t talk about enough and should be part of the strategy is that’s where you can get people to engage, it’s a little bit easier to take your content redistributed to LinkedIn, as an example, and then start to get people to engage with that content there. And then that’s when you can win over a prospect and make it a little easier to sell. I just think that that’s important.
Jeff Winters 21:36
I do too. And it’s, you talked about repurposing, don’t fall into the trap to think that everything that you post on every area of your digital existence has to be new novel content. I saw a great thought online the other day and said, you know, a great marketing hack for scrappy upstart marketing departments is for someone in their marketing department to sit with the CEO for an hour every week, and let that CEO just brain dump. And that’s your that can be like your nucleus. And then you write a blog from that and you package it up for social. And then if social changes and LinkedIn likes longform versus shortform, versus carousels, you can repackage and repurpose that all sorts of different ways. Like, get that incredible nugget, and then make sure you’re repurposing it on social in the appropriate most optimal way based on the channel.
Eric Watkins 22:31
Get as much reach out of the content you’re writing as possible. You know, instead of spending all this you spent a ton of time and money writing really good content, use it. Use it,
Jeff Winters 22:41
use it the Forgotten child made me forgotten who was gonna forgotten child. I got angry. Face con.
Eric Watkins 22:50
Child. Well, what did you say in the first episode we ever had?
22:54
I remember what did I say? You said you
Eric Watkins 22:57
didn’t even remember the youngest ones name because you don’t know him well enough. But well,
Jeff Winters 23:01
that’s different.
Eric Watkins 23:04
That is the Forgotten child. That is the exact definition they’re the forgotten. Good thing Katie does Don’t
Jeff Winters 23:11
Don’t quote me to me.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully
We are now sitting on a pile of gold. Incredible leads more new sales meetings. Jeff, you’re always bringing us good ideas from a sales perspective. What do you have today?
Jeff Winters 24:22
Today? I think it’s important to all of those introverts out there who have been told their whole lives. They can do anything but sales or sales has never been in their potential job future, that all those liars are wrong, and that we will welcome you here. And that any sales department across this great land should welcome you with open arms. Because to you my introverted friends I say you will likely kick the shit out of all of your extroverted sales. I
Scott Scully 25:00
totally agree. I couldn’t agree more on the introvert, bring
Jeff Winters 25:03
on the No, extroverts are great, but there’s just it’s kidding aside, it’s such a bummer. Introverts are often our best salespeople because they ask great questions. They don’t over talk there. There’s not necessarily microwaves, they’re they’re slow cookers and the way that they think introverts are great salespeople, and society sucks for making them think otherwise.
Scott Scully 25:26
This is, in my opinion, your best point, so far, I’m
Jeff Winters 25:31
blushing.
Scott Scully 25:32
I’m not kidding, like, and I think it’s, you don’t want to talk. Right? You’re not naturally, the one that’s at the cocktail party initiating the conversation, you’re way better at someone walking up and you ask a question. So you very quickly can shut up and let them talk. And then of course, you’re hearing that and you’re really good at being able to ask the next question so that you can stay in your zone, which is not, I want to talk all the time. And those people, in my opinion, over 30 years have been way better salespeople
Eric Watkins 26:07
agree? You’re an extrovert? Yeah. So are you are you comfortable, be comfortable with this?
Jeff Winters 26:13
I’m becoming a more of an introvert becoming more of an introvert. For introversion? Yeah, I can’t help what I’ve been given. But
Eric Watkins 26:22
do you get your energy being around other people or by yourself?
Jeff Winters 26:29
Depends on the people know.
Scott Scully 26:32
He’s looking very low right now.
Eric Watkins 26:35
I’d like that definition to figure out. I did. I think this is a great point. I think for all the reasons you both have said, but it is the you have sales has always had this reputation. You got to be this smooth, super confident, fast talker. It’s not about talking anymore. It’s about listening and solving problems. And then once you’ve listened, being able to articulate your thoughts in the right way. That’s it. That’s it. And people want prospects want to talk. They don’t want to be talked at they when you talk, it needs to be after they talked to tell you what you need to talk about. And I think introverts are great at that.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 27:15
Okay, from sales True Tales from truth. All right. Every time we go into this section, I think God, we’ve brought such unbelievable advice, things that you can take, put into play, grow your business, and then we screw it all up at the end. What to do or not to do, but it’s fun.
Eric Watkins 27:40
It’s fun. It’s survived another episode. It survived another episode. And for now, and it’s the highlight of my week, so I’m glad that we can go into this to do or not to do this one’s a good one. We have new year’s eve coming up. Big day people love New Year’s Eve. Do you stay in? And I’m gonna group stay in with have a little party at your house. Like do you stay in your house? Or do you go out do something fancy? Dress up? Nice. How do you celebrate New Year’s Eve? We’ll start with you Jeff.
Jeff Winters 28:17
I’m a I’m a firm I’m a firm stand now stay home person on New Year’s Eve. And I will always be that way from henceforth post up marriage and look here’s the dead New Year’s Eve to me is is a legit there’s like a logistical thing I don’t want to deal with like whatever it is the babysitter got it. No babysitter okay then you get it. It’s cold you gotta get right get it right this is like so many logistics that I don’t want to that I don’t want I want to buy a ticket there’s so many things I don’t want to mess I just want to be at home just let it be a regular night and then and then the the fireworks. Can we stop with the fireworks. Everybody around me is putting on their own fireworks display. And I don’t want it I’m gonna hold. Hold for your fireworks display. I don’t want your fireworks display. I don’t want your loud music. I don’t want your bow ties. I want to stay home. I go out on Tuesday.
Scott Scully 29:16
You don’t bang on the pans at your house.
Jeff Winters 29:18
No, it should be illegal. Pan hanging.
Scott Scully 29:22
I think there’s buckets. Zero to 25 You’re out.
Eric Watkins 29:27
Get out there.
Scott Scully 29:29
You might be out. Meeting you’re trying to find your potential wife or husband 25 to 40 You’re at the house. You’re maybe doing a lot of the same things with some of your closest friends at the house. 40 Plus, you’re already in bed.
Eric Watkins 29:49
I respect that.
Scott Scully 29:51
I respect that three buckets. I think that that’s how it goes down. Here’s the thing
Jeff Winters 29:55
if you have people over how do you get them out?
Eric Watkins 29:57
I don’t Yeah, and they got you know You’re signing up for people to stay at your house till at least one o’clock go away.
Jeff Winters 30:04
I’m at nine.
Eric Watkins 30:06
I want to check I want the Shasha
Scott Scully 30:07
Jeff went from 25 to 40 Plus there was never the in the home party.
Eric Watkins 30:14
I don’t like dealing with other people in general, but New Years especially, but I will say this I think I have a caveat. If you are in town, I’m gonna stay home I’m gonna stay home or go out of town and celebrated elsewhere.
Jeff Winters 30:32
Well of course you’re out of town you’re gonna go out with tell you can do if you’re on a tiny celebrate in your hotel room.
Eric Watkins 30:37
Jeff Don’t Don’t patronize me
Jeff Winters 30:39
what should I not let your facts get in the way of good story? I mean, I know if you go out of town Yeah, you gotta go out alright, good caveat. If you’re out of town, you gotta go out because you’re out anyways. Get out of my house though.
Eric Watkins 30:52
to Jeff’s house at my house and put my you go into bed put my hands go into me bang
Jeff Winters 30:57
somebody else’s pants you
Scott Scully 30:58
better do you know what I’m gonna do later on are kicked in the shoulder. Later on our little tour, we’re going to do the dive bar tour. I can’t wait. After she’s had a couple of drinks. Talking Katie into having a New Year’s Eve party at your house every New Years.
Jeff Winters 31:17
Now if we’re gonna get to dive bars there’s a whole different can of worms I want to talk about to do or not to do go to dive bars not to do
Scott Scully 31:25
somehow he couldn’t be more excited to jump on the bus and to go to five St. Louis finest establishments worse, but now the mission of the whole evening is to figure out how we can plan a New Year’s Eve party at just love it and stay past 10
Jeff Winters 31:45
The call the police on my own party. Trespassers in my house banging my pants you are setting off fireworks
Scott Scully 31:52
you are going to do that to your kids. I know you’re going to be the parent that calls the cops on your own house.
Jeff Winters 31:57
Oh can’t wait no no officer that was Sheriff
Eric Watkins 32:00
This is the circle
Scott Scully 32:04
this is Sheriff winters What are you talking about? Hey yeah sir winners
Jeff Winters 32:09
Yeah, we understand there’s been a disturbance but can you can you take the hat off big L I’m what am I pretend to help like No, we’ve got it let’s go guys. Everybody in like you’re not part of the you’re not part of the team. Paul Blart. Yeah, you’re you’re just a guy that lives here. We’re not we don’t need your help. You’re not. You’re not in the FBI. Jeff.
Scott Scully 32:33
You don’t listen to the gross show. Okay, we had fun today. As always, we like to remind you to be kind of grow and grind. Let’s grow.
Running a small business is no small feat. It’s easy to get caught up in the day-to-day operations and lose sight of the bigger picture, but that’s not how successful businesses are run. To experience true growth and success, small businesses must operate with vigor, as if they were a large public business.
This means more than just hitting revenue targets. It involves all aspects of the business: human resources, finance, marketing, and sales. To achieve success, business owners must plan for growth and think five times bigger than they are today. To do this, it is essential to have an accountability team in place.
Find out more about how to implement an enterprise attitude with your team, how to improve your SDR’s mindset, and how to recruit new salespeople in this episode.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Hey, what’s up girl nation. Welcome back. Thank you for making us the number one podcast on the planet.
Eric Watkins 00:10
Number one,
Jeff Winters 00:11
number one, numero uno
Scott Scully 00:13
for actionable business advice. When we set out to do this bad boy, our goal was to make sure that your journey was just a little bit easier than ours. We were kicked in the face held down. We got back up and we found the things that worked. No textbooks on the show writer,
Eric Watkins 00:36
right. No theory,
Scott Scully 00:37
no theory. We’re only talking about stories from the front lines, things that we put in place things that we know work, it was hard. We want it to be easier for you. That’s what the show is all about. The beautiful thing is this fire is free. No charge. All you got to do is tune in weekly. Listen to us having a little fun talking about growth.
Jeff Winters 00:59
We’re not getting paid for this.
Scott Scully 01:01
No, we’re not so
Jeff Winters 01:04
huh. shows right now.
Scott Scully 01:06
How are you feeling? Jeff?
Jeff Winters 01:07
I feel amazing. We have had something happened amongst the hosts. Since since we left you last that I think is worth mentioning. One of us is engaged. That’s right.
Eric Watkins 01:22
Yes. Wow.
Jeff Winters 01:24
Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you to do or not to do
Eric Watkins 01:27
to do or not to do it was to get engaged to do. Yeah. Very exciting. You
Scott Scully 01:32
wonderful woman. You married or are marrying up,
Eric Watkins 01:36
glaring out kicked my coverage for sure. She’s the best. She said yes. Well, at first she said, What the hell? And then she said yes. Uh huh. Like, you’re her best. You said, Right. She said right now, and I’m like, Well, I’m on a knee. And I gotta ring I would say right now. Yeah. But she said yes.
Jeff Winters 01:57
It’s very exciting.
Scott Scully 01:59
Eric, are you feeling good about today?
Eric Watkins 02:01
I’m feeling great about today. Especially newly engaged?
Scott Scully 02:04
Yeah,
Eric Watkins 02:05
I’m engaged. I’m double engaged. I’m engaged to Sofia, and I’m engaged to our content, baby. Let’s go.
Scott Scully 02:12
Well, let’s get into it. As you all know, we start with Mr. Winters and our favorite LinkedIn. Sheriff. What do you got today?
Jeff Winters 02:21
I got a hot topic. Ai, very hot topic. This truth comes from Andris Clint Bodnar,
Scott Scully 02:32
I feel sorry for these people by their names are butchered with these
Jeff Winters 02:36
clips. And I don’t want to butcher because this is the truth. AI will not replace you, a person using AI? Will now i’d modify that and say might, but I find this to be true. I find this to be true. And I’ll tell you why. Because I think people are way overreacting that AI is going to replace the salesperson AI is going to replace the accounting person AI is going to manage accounts. No AI is not. But if you’ve used this chat GPT if you’ve used any of the AI out there, here’s what I know, I’m better off using and leveraging AI than not. And that’s only going to continue to be more and more and more of the case. And while I certainly don’t think like Andres, that AI is going to replace boatloads of people, especially salespeople account management, I do think if you’re not going to be able to leverage the AI tools that are available to you go forward this year, next year, 510 years, you are at risk
Scott Scully 03:44
truth. I think that when armed with the right data, somebody can be more powerful than somebody that is not. I don’t think that you can just have artificial intelligence do the job. But when you when you’ve got good data, you’re on top. It’s funny, as you were talking a couple of days ago, I was flipping through the channels and Moneyball was on Do you remember that? Where that young kid was super smart and given Brad Pitt all the data to make some crazy trades and buys and you know, they ended up putting a team together that was super successful won like 30 games in a row. It’s pretty unbelievable. It’s kind of back when people didn’t traditionally used data. And it’s all overnight. It’s a truth for me.
Eric Watkins 04:35
Yeah, I would say it’s true as well. It’s definitely going to play a huge part and what we’re what business is doing moving forward, but I will say that I think as AI becomes more and more relevant, the way you will differentiate yourself as a company is from the human element, like the human element will be, well actually AI will cause a higher need for More of that human touch to be involved in the sales process and the process with your accounts. So I think there’ll be a little bit of both, but yes, truth Truth.
Jeff Winters 05:09
Our next truth comes from David Gearheart. He says, I’m happy to share that, in addition to my role as CEO of exit five is his company. I’ve also taken on the new role of chief happiness officer, please congratulate me in the comments below. I’m also the Chief Financial Officer, the Chief Human Resources Officer, the Chief ninja officer, the chief Rockstar officer, the janitor chief pocket tear, a VP of accounts, enterprise account manager, marketing manager and head of breakfast and lunch, I find this to be a truth. Because this is the reality for a lot of entrepreneurs out there. For a lot of presidents, a lot of CEOs, and it always has been. But maybe now more than ever, where companies are having to do a little more with less. This is even more of the reality for CEOs and entrepreneurs. And it goes back to something we’ve talked about on this show many times, but it cannot be overstated. Entrepreneurship ain’t easy. Being a CEO ain’t easy. And if your goal isn’t to be all these things, but you’re going to have to be at some point. And if you don’t want to embrace that, and love that entrepreneurship is not going to be for you. I think this is a truth big hats off to David for taking on all these roles, especially the head of breakfast and lunch.
Eric Watkins 06:19
Well, not breakfast, though. We’ve talked about that. No breakfast for him. Yeah, for him. This is real. How was he productive? eaten two pancakes in the morning? No, I think this is true. It’s you know, I’ve seen it in through both you guys, you know, and hearing your stories and coming up, you’ve played just about every single role at one point, and you can’t, I don’t think you I don’t think I’ve ever seen any successful entrepreneur that said, Oh, that’s not my problem. That’s somebody else’s problem, like they’ve, you know, are willing to help and dive in where it needed.
Scott Scully 06:50
I need more data. I don’t know, I don’t know the size of the company. It’s just him? Well, it sounds like it’s just so in the beginning. Obviously, when you’re small, you’re wearing all those hats. When you’re much larger. I think it would be your goal as the CEO to make sure that people are wearing those hats. I think that there are a lot of entrepreneurs that start a business grow up pretty quickly. And there aren’t many that can transition to being a CEO. And that’s when they look elsewhere and start hiring somebody that is good at delegation and keeping the vision strong and making sure that people are on the team are doing the things that they need to do. So it just kind of depends on the size. It’s been a big transition for me, for sure. And I’m still learning. When you’re used to wearing those hats and playing all the roles. It’s super hard to let go of the reins and make sure that other people are doing that. I’d say it’s one of the biggest things that we’re working on now across our organization, the VPS aren’t doing the director’s jobs, and the directors aren’t doing the manager’s jobs and you know, all the way across the team. So I think it depends on the size. Truth, if super small and still truth, like you have to be thinking about those things. But delegation is important. If you’re larger,
Jeff Winters 08:10
good thoughts. We all wait for this. We all
Eric Watkins 08:14
get through it. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Scully 08:18
Yeah, very specific about the names you seem to be hiding the names.
Jeff Winters 08:22
I didn’t even on this one, I didn’t even take his photo. Healthy reminder to all salespeople entering the New Year. Here’s the list of 10 things prospects literally don’t give a single solitary shit about never have and never will. I’m going to read a couple that. I’m just gonna say this. Number seven on this list is your ROI calculator. Prospects never have and never will give a shit about your ROI calculator. And I think this is this is a bad one. Because ROI is always important when you’re selling anything. Period, the end full stop part stop ROI is important. But right now, in this economic climate are in any turbulent economic climate. All I’m hearing and reading sales cycles, extended more decision makers in the process. And you know who those additional decision makers are the CFO, the VP of Finance, and you know what those people are asking, not how cool is the feature? Not how much money did they raise? Not how awesome is the CEO? They’re going, okay? Don’t care about any of those things. If we spend X dollars on this, what’s the return? Now more than ever, ROI matters. And don’t forget that going into the sales cycle, because if you don’t think that ROI matters, you don’t think your ROI calculator is important while you’re pitching someone who’s gonna go have to pitch three other people internally to buy your stuff. You’re gonna get beat by your competitor because they are pitching ROI because they are smart and they know that that D Bill’s gonna have to go to a committee of people, one of whom inevitably will be financially minded, if not the CFO, I think this is a bad lie and people salespeople best not take heed. Well said,
Eric Watkins 10:11
lie. Yeah, I think it’s a lie. If you’re not, if it’s not an investment, it’s a cost. And in this climate, no one’s looking to take on additional costs. They’re looking to find investments. So agree,
Jeff Winters 10:24
take your ROI calculator out of your bag, polish it off a new battery in it.
Scott Scully 10:30
You’re passionate about this. Yeah, like, Give us one more on that guy’s list.
Jeff Winters 10:34
Which guys list, the ones that lie, there’s some good ones out there. I
Scott Scully 10:38
mean, you’ve got this grin on your face. Like it’s, I really like seven of the worst lies you’ve
Jeff Winters 10:43
ever heard. Just that one was a lot bad. And it’s just bad. Now like that. That is one that if you do, like if, if I’m a if I’m a if somebody if my boss and I’m a salesperson, they go, you know, I don’t think we should talk about ROI. And then the whole team proliferates that. And again, I want to talk about ROI, it’s bad idea, you just gonna like start losing deals in droves.
50 for 50
Scott Scully 11:02
Alright, badness, we’ll let him off the hook anymore and expose the other six. We’re heading to the 55th. Yeah, we are. This is one of my favorites. Run your private business, like a public business, run your private, small business. Like it’s a super large public business. Many business owners operate, you know, like the purpose is to find your way to a certain lifestyle. Right? It doesn’t matter as much. When you’re a smaller business and you miss a target, you could still find yourself in a spot where you make good money, employees are happy targets are missed. So if you want to be successful, year over year, if you want to experience growth, if you want your company to grow in value, you’ve got to operate with vigor. You know, we could talk about all aspects of business. I know that at this table, we all believe in this, it isn’t just your revenue numbers, it’s human resources, finance, marketing sales, I think we would suggest that if you really want to do a good job grow forward, you look at yourself for five times bigger like than you are today. And you put systems in place, you plan that growth. So that it is when it comes at you you’re prepared for it. But just keeping it today about revenue growth, you’re just going to be that much more successful. If you’re held accountable. So it can’t just be you. You I found a quote from the American Society of training and development, the difference in these stats was surprised me. So if someone has an idea, if we have an idea or a command, we want to go to 20 million, when we just state that, well, we’d be 10% likely to hit the goal. If we call out that number, if we say we want to be 20 million, and we want to be that and this year, you know, by this date, you know there’s a time period to it, then you’re about 40% likely to hit your goal. But if you say I want to be at 20 million, by this year by this date, and then there are people to hold you accountable to that. Other than just yourself, you’re 95% likely to hit that goal. So there’s a lot of you that are listening, where you say I want to grow by 20%. This year, I’d like to grow the bottom line by 10%. But if you’re a smaller business, you may not be calling those numbers out. That may be a goal that you have, that others aren’t aware of. And you gotta get your accountability team in place ASAP. We do this here. We put it in a lot of different places. And so here are some suggestions for you. It could be by way of a Pay Plan. It could be letting your employees know so they hold you accountable. It could be a quarterly vision meeting where you’re calling it out and showing plus or minus to your budget. It can be a board that you put in together an advisor, a business coach, your banker, your lawyer, shit your doctor, your friends, family, but you need several areas of accountability. Because when you have that in place, you feel bad if you’re not hitting your goals. So what we have things here, we have these vision meetings we call things out. We make our entire budget. You know we explosive Not only our top line, but our our bottom line, we tell people everything. And it is not fun at a quarterly vision meeting to get up there and talk to almost 600 people, if we’re behind pace, especially when they’re there for growth, especially when they know where we’re supposed to be. It’s not fun. And if they know where you’re going, or where you’re growing, not only are they holding you accountable, but they’re more apt to be tied into the vision and help you get there. So this is a we could talk for multiple episodes about this. But what do you guys think? What do you think her?
Eric Watkins 15:39
I think this is genius. And I think it’s something I’ve taken for granted. And I think it took Jeff coming into the business, actually saying you guys run this business, like a publicly traded company. And what I think publicly traded company, what stands out most to me, is they are constantly being evaluated for what their future results are going to be. And your shareholders are pretty much your employees and a private business. You know, they obviously don’t own shares in your company, in most cases, but they’re choosing to work for your company, because they’re confident in where the business is going. And if you always operate like that, you’re making sure you constantly have a desirable future for everybody in your organization. So I love it, it’s more stressful, but it ultimately will make you more successful. So I would rather have the stress of having high goals to go achieve versus complacency as a business and ultimately, maybe going out of business.
Jeff Winters 16:40
When I, when I think about this was really hard for me when I was running a business because Scott, you alluded to it. At a high level. One of the many enormous differences between private businesses public company, is if I’m the CEO, I’m accountable to me, whatever I think that’s it, like, Yeah, I’m accountable to customers. Yeah, I’m accountability employees, but like, I’m kind of accountable to me, if we do well, I’m okay with it or not. Whereas public business accountable to shareholders accountable the Wall Street accountable to projections accountable to your board, because the CEO can get fired at a public company, by the board, a CEO cannot get fired at a private company. And there’s where you start to really no need to have as a CEO, that internal constitution that drive to replace the I can get fired, because you can’t get fired as the CEO of a private business, fucking company, I can’t fire me. And that’s where it comes down to you, internally, having the absolute allergy to complacency. Like there is no good enough, like we are never going to be complacent. We are going to strive for perfection, we are going to strive for these goals and nothing else is going to be acceptable. But it takes a very special kind of CEO to do that, because it’s the resistance to complacency, in the absence of any real consequences. That makes this possible. And that’s hard. It’s hard for me,
Scott Scully 18:10
public companies, numbers or missed shareholder values down and heads will roll. You’re on the news, right?
Eric Watkins 18:21
We see it about every day, these days, you do new companies cutting 10,000 jobs. Here’s the
Scott Scully 18:27
hard part. Everybody coming up, got a bag of goodies for losing the soccer game. They just did. That’s how most people are built these days is that yeah, you tried too hard Johnny, you put in some good effort, you guys lost you’ll get them next time. You need to have the balls to put together the accountability team that’s actually going to hold you accountable. Because if you want to grow by 20%, and you grow by 16%, you don’t want to be surrounded by the people that are gonna say it’s okay. Like, it’s okay, we still grew. Because that that was not the goal. And you got to make sure to have the right folks in place. Sometimes it’s probably easier to have some people from the outside your banker, you got along with your banker, and they want to see good performance numbers. And you could say, Look, you know, I know that we probably don’t need to do this to have our current relationship. But I need you when meet we meet to hold me accountable to being at this number and I want you to press hard. threaten my loan, if I don’t hit it, or a wife or husband or whatever it may be. Just get that right team in place. So here’s the homework. So go evaluate your business and think about your goals and write them down A lot of you have probably done that. And then I want you to pick at least three areas where you’re going to be held accountable. And I want you to do it as soon as possible. And I think your years going to be that much better if you do that work. Right now, put your accountability team in place, and year over year growth will happen. So that’s our 50 for 50. Now we’re heading over to mining for growth, gold,
Mining for Growth Gold
Eric Watkins 20:28
mining for growth gold. Alright, so I will preface this one’s a little visual. And it’s going to be a little bit longer. But bear with me here as we go through it. So what I’m going to talk today about is the what I call the mindset pyramid for STRS. This is like a mix is something I came up with. But it’s a mix of like a Tony Robbins book and a Gandhi quote and a couple other things combined. But I feel like mindset is such an intangible thing, it’s really hard to train and to coach and to get STRS to appreciate. So the first thing I want to start with why train mindset, I’ll just train them how to make calls, they can just make calls, follow the script and get appointments. Well, we were crunching the numbers as a team actually looking at success rates and conversion rates. And we estimate you’re not learning any anything different saying any different words, you are 27 times a better caller, a more effective caller, on your good day, your best day, versus when you come in and you’re down and you stepped in a puddle on the way to work and your girlfriend’s mad at you whatever it may be, then on that day, like 27 times it’s looking at the conversion rate. So on this pyramid, at the foundation, you have beliefs, belief system is the foundation of it all the way, you know two things is why two things happen to the same person. And they react in different ways because our belief system tells us if something is good or bad, our belief system drives that next level, which is our thoughts. Those are our thoughts that are going through our head, every single day, we have 1000s and 1000s of thoughts that are going through our head and our brain is wired in a way where we fixate or focus on a certain amount of thoughts. That’s why if I asked you, how many thoughts have you had today, you probably could tell me 10, right. And it’s, it’s why when you buy a car and you see, all of a sudden you start seeing that car on the highway, that’s the same part of the brain. And then our thoughts lead to our words, our words lead to our actions, our actions lead to our habits, and our habits determine if we’re ultimately successful. So why is this so important with sales? Let’s use a new SDR. They’re about to get on the phone for a client. What do you think their belief system is? They might be thinking things like, I’m not good at this. I’m not ready. I should have studied more. I’m not sure where to take this call when they pick up the phone. What if I mess up? This could be bad, a lot of bad beliefs about themselves. So then they start calling, they hit dial phone starts ringing. What thoughts do you think are going through their head? Don’t pick up like, Oh, if they pick up? I don’t know what I’m gonna say, oh, man, what if I mess this up? You know, the same things? And then inevitably, somebody picks up? And then what are their words sound like? Are they come out or they’re stuttering, they don’t have a good call. And then now that leads to an action of, you know, I want to not experience this anymore. And now I have developed a habit of getting people on the phone is a bad thing. And you’ve you have what you what we hear all the time, which is call reluctance. So what I think is really important is to look at it the opposite way. So if st a new SDR comes in, and they have a belief system of I’m the best caller in the world. I’m going to absolutely I did all my study and in preparation, I’m so ready for this call. I am going to represent my client in the best way possible. I can’t wait to put these new tools in use. And then the phone starts ringing. What are they thinking what thoughts are going through their head? Now it’s, it’s a bad day to be a KTM. Like, if you pick up the phone, you’re in trouble. And then that person picks up the phone, they have an incredible call. Inevitably, they set an appointment set a good opportunity for our client, and now they have reinforced that cycle of action. So all of that to be said when we’re training STRS typically when someone’s underperforming, what we do is we go, well, let’s change your word track. Let’s fix this. Let’s fix that. Say this Don’t say that. But none of us are training what I call below the surface. That person may not even believe that they can be successful. So step one, get them to believe and then step two find ways to help them control their thoughts. Right maybe they have a sticky note that sitting on their computer before every call that says you got this you’re gonna have an incredible call. Maybe they do I am statements in the morning to get there. Our belief system, right? I just think this is something that’s way overlooked in sales. It’s not the X’s and O’s, but it can make an even bigger impact and all that. What do you guys think?
Scott Scully 25:09
I absolutely love it couldn’t agree more. You’ve heard that you are what you eat. I do believe that you’ll be what you believe it’s all in your head. I really believe that I think you can be whoever you want to be.
Jeff Winters 25:23
I think we underestimate the idea. And this is not my phrase, but that leadership. Oftentimes, it’s just a transference of belief. Like as a leader, it’s impossible to quantify how big of an impact you can have by making someone that reports to you believe in themselves. That is a big part of your job as a leader is to blow belief into the sales of their job like that is that is the wind the sale you understand? Yeah, I’m sorry. I was a little taken aback. Eric compared himself to Gandhi and Tony Robbins there at the beginning. So I was a little
Eric Watkins 25:59
time going to saying I stole their stuff and put it together and
Jeff Winters 26:04
they came off me Eric. Basically, Tony Robbins Leetonia Gandhi equals Eric, I’m sitting here going really that’s what is that’s like a one plus one equals like, what? 100? I never heard that. But I will call you so Tony Gandhi said Shaiya. What if we just combine it Tony Gandhi over there? No. It’s so important. Make it leadership is a transference of belief. And so many cases, like make your people believe you’d be shocked at how much just a little show of belief in them will go, how far to go. It’s
Eric Watkins 26:33
it’s a great way to say there. And it’s funny, you know, you’ve seen some of we’ve seen some of the best people ever, best salespeople ever go into slumps? And it doesn’t matter how smart you are what you know how good you say it. If that belief is shaken, everything throws everything off. So it’s big deal.
Jeff Winters 26:51
Gandhi would be proud Tony Robbins would be proud. Let me speak on their behalf.
Eric Watkins 26:55
I mean, someone’s gotta carry the torch. Someone’s got a great
Scott Scully 27:00
All right, that is awesome stuff. And again, now we’re sitting on a pile of leads, right? The the sales reps had the right mindset. They went out mined for gold. Now our salespeople are sitting there on top of these leads, Jeff, how we’re gonna close them? Tails.
Tales from Sales
Jeff Winters 27:17
There’s a problem, Scott, there is a big problem and sales world. You know what it is? This just in,
Scott Scully 27:23
there’s not enough software.
Jeff Winters 27:26
Close. There’s no shortage of software for sales teams to buy. As a PSA. You know, your number one job as a sales leader, to having the best team. That’s your number one job as a sales leader. And sales leaders inevitably spend time doing anything but having the best team. They spend time call coaching, they spend time on call, you’ve listened to the gross show your sales leaders are spending time on calls. They spend time schmoozing. They spend time at outings, they spend endless hours thinking up and tweaking sales contests. Yet the most important thing they can do is have the best people. And how much time are they spending recruiting? How much time are they spending training the next generation? How much time are they spending in the hiring process and designing an amazing hiring process? It’s so simple. And yet, it’s just counterintuitive for sales leaders. And so I share this because in today’s world, a big challenge that a lot of sales teams face is turnover, turnover. And when you have turnover and sales, oftentimes sales leaders will tell you, it’s way worse than any other position in the company. Because these people are accountable for X hundreds of 1000s or millions of dollars or whatever it is in revenue, and replacing them will take way more than two weeks. And this is where there’s a lot of things that go into having the best team. I want to focus very deeply in this particular area. Because we’ve dealt with it, we’ve seen this problem. And I think we fix this problem. You need a farm team, you need a minor league you need as a sales leader, it is your job to make sure that that team never misses a beat. Doesn’t matter how many people leave. And it is your job then if you if you believe that and you ought to then it is your job to create a job or a series of jobs whereby you have people that are fully trained up not a little train not they know it a little bit fully trained up to step in in the event you have turnover. And this does two amazing things for you. A you don’t miss a beat on your annual goal because let me tell you some if you’re a sales leader, what you don’t want to do is go to the CEO and go I would have hit it but we had two people leave well wait a minute. No, no, no, no, no. That’s on you. And if you’re a CEO, you don’t want to look at your sales leader and go we’re gonna miss our goal because we lost two people like there’s transition and turnover everywhere. Here’s what you need to do as a sales leader. Here’s your tactic. Here’s your tip. You need to have a group with people that that can step in immediately, and a position or a group of positions where you are constantly training them to be ready to go day one, A, you’ll be way better off in the event to do a transition. And then there’s this other thing, B, which is maybe want to add to your sales team, these people are so good, you just bring them right up, and you get more caught on the street, you’re able to sell more. So the tale from sale today, the tip from me. Number one job as a sales leader, have the best team, make sure you are prepared for transition and turnover. It is inevitable. Have a farm team
Scott Scully 30:37
today, man, well, you talk about it a lot having enough quota. You can’t have enough quota in place if you don’t have a full team, or, you know the people on the team that can handle a sizable enough quota to roll up into the goal. I love it.
Eric Watkins 30:51
God, he told me one, I could never have enough salespeople. You go through one, one sales year, where you lose some key people and you never forget this lesson. Never forget it. Gotta have a system in place where people can step right in.
Scott Scully 31:09
And a lot of smaller companies, they’ll lose a rep and they’ll just adjust their goal. Well, we went we were on pace. But in June, we lost a couple salespeople. So we readjusted so now we didn’t hit our 20% we hit 17% growth but not 20. It’s like, screw that you you pick 20% you put someone in charge, you’re hitting that number. And no matter what it takes, even if there are a couple of people down there, gotta hit it,
Eric Watkins 31:35
and not the tip. But as we’re talking about it, and you mentioned that another good reason to control your sales enablement, as well control how many opportunities you’re getting to make that turnover less painful, right? If you just have two sales reps, and they’re in charge of generating all the leads and closing all the business and one of them leaves. Yeah, it’s a lot harder problem, then I’m gonna give all these leads to our other Sales Rep. Right until we get somebody else up to speed. It’s good point. Good work. All right, let’s wrap this thing up with you know what we’re wrapping.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 32:06
Again, disclaimer, listen, put it into place. We’re not on the to do or not to do ya know, what is the opinion section?
Eric Watkins 32:15
Yes. And usually not very good opinions. But you know, we’re gonna do. Alright, so for today, it’s kind of a to do it’s kind of a nod to do. It’s kind of just a question. So bear with me. When someone says the word, sure. Do they mean? Sure? Or do they mean? Sure? Which one do they mean? What would you say? What, uh, how do you read into that? Jeff?
Jeff Winters 32:46
I always assumed they meant Sure. Like, positive. I’m a positive sure person. So I assume they mentioned as you said it, I was shocked to learn that that that could mean the otherwise, like, the other side of that could be sure I don’t. This could be why my wife and I maybe
Eric Watkins 33:10
yeah, it could be Yeah, I think you’re missing. You know, I’m like, no punctuation needed. This is just this text that says, Sure.
Jeff Winters 33:18
Am I good husband like Sure. I’m like, sure. Yeah, you are as maybe she made? Sure
Scott Scully 33:23
over half the population is thinking. Yeah, screw you. I guess I’ll do that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I was like, Jeff, I thought, sure. Yeah. Why wouldn’t we do that? And then I was scolded recently for using that word. If you’re going to stop using any word, Scott, please stop using the word. Sure. It means you’re really not interested. And now every time someone says sure, to me, I can’t stop thinking about it. Like, did they mean, where do they want to do it? Not want to do it. But I think that if we went out and looked or if we polled people, I think at least half the people are disinterested. Yeah. When they say Sure.
Eric Watkins 34:08
Or like a it’s like a passive aggressive if I have to. Yes, sure. Huh. Yeah. Thought opening your mind. You know, opening your mind. I’m the same way though. I’ve always read it as a shirt. Like I use it as a sure. But I’ve had a couple of people mistake it. Like what do you say and cheer for? You’re not excited about it? I mean, yeah, it was whatever you want to exclamation point. What do you want? What do you want out of me?
Jeff Winters 34:35
I feel like that’s lazy. Like if if you sure like you should find some other language like word for that. Absolutely. Like not really excited about this not really about use that
Scott Scully 34:50
as Oh, he’s incredible, incredible advice. We hope you put some of this into action. Again, our goal for you is so that your journey is just a little bit easier than ours has been. If you have any questions about any of these business growth tips or any of the things that we do from a service perspective, please reach out. As always,
35:13
let’s grow let’s grow Sure. Grow show is sponsored by bionic SDR outreach playbook design.
As business owners, we understand the importance of awards and recognition for our businesses. This type of recognition is an effective way to boost morale, attract new talent, create free publicity and help differentiate yourself from your competitors. But did you know that winning awards can actually result in a 63% increase in income and a 39% increase in sales? Find out more about awards, key decision maker referrals, and how to handle a salesperson in a slump in this episode.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to the growth show. couldn’t be more excited about being with my partners in growth Eric Watkins and low winter. Welcome
Jeff Winters 00:09
back.
Scott Scully 00:11
Guys ready to bring the heat? Let’s do it. Sir. You are listening to the number one resource on the planet. For growth tips, actionable advice, we’re just trying to make it a little bit easier for you all out there in your journey to year over year growth. You know, what I love about the show is that we get to kick it off with the sheriff.
Eric Watkins 00:35
Oh, the Sheriff of LinkedIn.
Scott Scully 00:39
Mr. Winters is combing the pastures finding the goods and pointing out the shit.
Jeff Winters 00:48
combing the pastures I like. I’m never gonna, I’m unfamiliar with the pastures. But
Eric Watkins 00:54
I’ve ever been in a pasture and is like to choose
00:57
your life better than pasture,
Jeff Winters 00:59
the segment sweeping the country. People want to be named. And we’re gonna name Darren Alpert, for today’s first truth. Today we’re talking about ote, as the kids call it, we call it on target earnings. It’s a fun phrase people use mostly in sales, to talk about how much you can get with your base plus your commission. And Darren says, quote, hard to turn down a roll with $150,000 base and 300k ote question mark? Not really, if no one is hitting quota and Product Market Fit isn’t there, you have to do research. Otherwise, you’re going to be looking, again for a job in six to nine months. I think this is a material truth. The on target earnings for a salesperson has a lot to do with the product and the company. I think people get suckered in jobs based on big on target earnings promises and end up leaving jobs where they’re making a lot of money to make jobs to go to jobs where the promises a lot of money, you better know what you’re doing for you take a big on target earnings job, do your research truth.
Scott Scully 02:06
I agree. I think that if you’re out there looking for a job, and there is base and commission, a lot of times people are talking about the top one or two reps. That’s how it’s built. And some people fail in building a plan for the middle group of your sales department, which is where most people lie. So I would ask for what the middle third makes. And I’d even ask for some numbers. So you could talk to a couple of salespeople direct and get the facts.
Eric Watkins 02:39
Yeah, 150 basis a lot for a lot of people. So maybe not speaking particularly to that. But in just looking at the total income in general, if you’re leaving a job to try to go make more money. I agree with Scott, I think I would ask for if a company really wants you They really want you, especially in sales, you have a lot more leverage than you probably think I would say, show me the last month’s commission payouts you can block the names. I don’t need to see who made what to show me all. Show me all the reps call them rep 1234. See what they’re making? Get a feel for it.
Jeff Winters 03:15
Yeah, I think the number the base salary, obviously large, it’s less about that I think and more about what the actual comp package looks like. And it’s as much about probably the the bonus as it is about the ability to be successful. Sure. And stay there and not get put on a performance plan. Don’t. I think people when they’re in the interview process, they feel like they’re almost beneath the interviewer such that they’re not going to ask the hard questions that they need to ask like, feel free to ask really hard questions to get the answers you need. Like don’t be so anxious to get a job that you’re going to overlook. Asking the hard question.
Eric Watkins 03:49
Yep. It’s good to be back.
Jeff Winters 03:52
Next truth, Ally merchant. And I think it’s particularly important for for new managers managing sort of greener frontline employees. I made this mistake as a manager. I was careless. Here’s what happened. I was using what he calls drive by language example. Can you look into it Nice job ASAP. Should have used deliberate language example. Can you review slide seven and eight? Thank you for adding the timeline. This helps the team can you please send the report by 10am CST today, if you want to get better ask yourself, Am I being specific? Where can I be more specific? How can I be more specific? I see this a lot with newer managers and newer leaders. It’s you know, in your head what you want from someone. But when you ask them for it, they are confused and they don’t ask you back like, exactly to clarify. So you’re at the end of the conversation and it’s end of a meeting. It’s action items. Oh, can you give me this? And then a week goes by and you get it and it’s not what you want it and that’s on you. As a manager, you got to be really specific to make sure you’re getting what you want and what’s in your head isn’t necessarily what’s being communicated. So you got to be clear. I think this is a good tip for men. pitchers,
Scott Scully 05:00
I like it, put it in writing,
Jeff Winters 05:02
get a response even better.
Scott Scully 05:04
If you want something and you want to be specific, put it in writing and ask people to acknowledge that they received it and ask them for their understanding of your message if you really want to be sure.
Eric Watkins 05:18
This is great. This is great feedback for me. And transparently, I’m not very good at this. I’ve been working with my team directly for on average, about five years, I would say. So I’m lucky to have a team I’ve been used to for a while. And I think you just get worse and worse at this as you get more and more comfortable with people. But it’s you can never be, you know, you can never give too much information about I think it’s super important.
Jeff Winters 05:45
Good lesson for managers truth, truth, truth, lie. Lie for name and names on this lie. Oh, sometimes we name names of individuals, sometimes we name names of companies. This comes from a company called consensus, which is ironic because on this, they do not have consensus. They say, quote, selling is hard. But buying is harder. Selling is hard buying is harder, what? And then it goes into like a whole diatribe on how hard it is to buy shit these days that I’m the tales from sales guy, I’m not the tails from sales guy because I like tails. Alright, I’ve interviewed somebody about selling I’ve been selling since my entire career. People talk about sales as though it is not hard as though it is not difficult as though you are not failing 85% of the time. And that’s success. You know, it’s not as easy as it sounds. And it sure is shit is not easier than buying something that is within your unilateral control. And I don’t care if you’re being tongue in cheek or not. Anything that perpetuates the stereotype that selling is easy pisses me off. I think it’s a lie. And it bothers me
Scott Scully 06:58
is this someone in charge of purchasing?
Jeff Winters 07:02
It’s a it’s a company called consensus.
Scott Scully 07:05
Okay, but the person penning this post is not know someone in charge of purchasing?
Eric Watkins 07:13
Look, they probably sell a purchasing software. That can
Scott Scully 07:17
be that can be a big job. But you’re in charge. You’re the one spending the money. So as long as you go through a process and you interview multiple companies and ask the right questions, I think you’re going to get to the end and pick the right choice. There are so many factors in selling to lie. Sorry to say it’s a lie.
Eric Watkins 07:41
It makes no sense to me. Just There’s nothing. There’s nothing more to say other than that. It’s really easy to buy things. I’m pretty good at buying things
Jeff Winters 07:51
I bought, I buy 100% of the things I want. I sell 10% of the time I want to sell
Scott Scully 07:58
you do as a larger organization need to make sure that you buy in the right way. But it’s easier to do that than sell the big deal. That’s for sure.
Eric Watkins 08:07
It’s definitely easier to make mistakes buying probably. But that’s
Jeff Winters 08:11
I suppose it’s a lie. Yeah, it’s
Scott Scully 08:14
all right. Good stuff out on LinkedIn. Are we still build in LinkedIn most wanted list, Jeff. Oh, it’s certainly work underway. Have we had anybody reaching out wanting to be one of the truths? Or are people putting themselves out
Jeff Winters 08:30
there? No one’s lobbying though. I’ve had a thank you or two. Yeah, yeah. Good, good about that.
50 for 50
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to the growth show. couldn’t be more excited about being with my partners in growth Eric Watkins and low winter. Welcome
Jeff Winters 00:09
back.
Scott Scully 00:11
Guys ready to bring the heat? Let’s do it. Sir. You are listening to the number one resource on the planet. For growth tips, actionable advice, we’re just trying to make it a little bit easier for you all out there in your journey to year over year growth. You know, what I love about the show is that we get to kick it off with the sheriff.
Eric Watkins 00:35
Oh, the Sheriff of LinkedIn.
Scott Scully 00:39
Mr. Winters is combing the pastures finding the goods and pointing out the shit.
Jeff Winters 00:48
combing the pastures I like. I’m never gonna, I’m unfamiliar with the pastures. But
Eric Watkins 00:54
I’ve ever been in a pasture and is like to choose
00:57
your life better than pasture,
Jeff Winters 00:59
the segment sweeping the country. People want to be named. And we’re gonna name Darren Alpert, for today’s first truth. Today we’re talking about ote, as the kids call it, we call it on target earnings. It’s a fun phrase people use mostly in sales, to talk about how much you can get with your base plus your commission. And Darren says, quote, hard to turn down a roll with $150,000 base and 300k ote question mark? Not really, if no one is hitting quota and Product Market Fit isn’t there, you have to do research. Otherwise, you’re going to be looking, again for a job in six to nine months. I think this is a material truth. The on target earnings for a salesperson has a lot to do with the product and the company. I think people get suckered in jobs based on big on target earnings promises and end up leaving jobs where they’re making a lot of money to make jobs to go to jobs where the promises a lot of money, you better know what you’re doing for you take a big on target earnings job, do your research truth.
Scott Scully 02:06
I agree. I think that if you’re out there looking for a job, and there is base and commission, a lot of times people are talking about the top one or two reps. That’s how it’s built. And some people fail in building a plan for the middle group of your sales department, which is where most people lie. So I would ask for what the middle third makes. And I’d even ask for some numbers. So you could talk to a couple of salespeople direct and get the facts.
Eric Watkins 02:39
Yeah, 150 basis a lot for a lot of people. So maybe not speaking particularly to that. But in just looking at the total income in general, if you’re leaving a job to try to go make more money. I agree with Scott, I think I would ask for if a company really wants you They really want you, especially in sales, you have a lot more leverage than you probably think I would say, show me the last month’s commission payouts you can block the names. I don’t need to see who made what to show me all. Show me all the reps call them rep 1234. See what they’re making? Get a feel for it.
Jeff Winters 03:15
Yeah, I think the number the base salary, obviously large, it’s less about that I think and more about what the actual comp package looks like. And it’s as much about probably the the bonus as it is about the ability to be successful. Sure. And stay there and not get put on a performance plan. Don’t. I think people when they’re in the interview process, they feel like they’re almost beneath the interviewer such that they’re not going to ask the hard questions that they need to ask like, feel free to ask really hard questions to get the answers you need. Like don’t be so anxious to get a job that you’re going to overlook. Asking the hard question.
Eric Watkins 03:49
Yep. It’s good to be back.
Jeff Winters 03:52
Next truth, Ally merchant. And I think it’s particularly important for for new managers managing sort of greener frontline employees. I made this mistake as a manager. I was careless. Here’s what happened. I was using what he calls drive by language example. Can you look into it Nice job ASAP. Should have used deliberate language example. Can you review slide seven and eight? Thank you for adding the timeline. This helps the team can you please send the report by 10am CST today, if you want to get better ask yourself, Am I being specific? Where can I be more specific? How can I be more specific? I see this a lot with newer managers and newer leaders. It’s you know, in your head what you want from someone. But when you ask them for it, they are confused and they don’t ask you back like, exactly to clarify. So you’re at the end of the conversation and it’s end of a meeting. It’s action items. Oh, can you give me this? And then a week goes by and you get it and it’s not what you want it and that’s on you. As a manager, you got to be really specific to make sure you’re getting what you want and what’s in your head isn’t necessarily what’s being communicated. So you got to be clear. I think this is a good tip for men. pitchers,
Scott Scully 05:00
I like it, put it in writing,
Jeff Winters 05:02
get a response even better.
Scott Scully 05:04
If you want something and you want to be specific, put it in writing and ask people to acknowledge that they received it and ask them for their understanding of your message if you really want to be sure.
Eric Watkins 05:18
This is great. This is great feedback for me. And transparently, I’m not very good at this. I’ve been working with my team directly for on average, about five years, I would say. So I’m lucky to have a team I’ve been used to for a while. And I think you just get worse and worse at this as you get more and more comfortable with people. But it’s you can never be, you know, you can never give too much information about I think it’s super important.
Jeff Winters 05:45
Good lesson for managers truth, truth, truth, lie. Lie for name and names on this lie. Oh, sometimes we name names of individuals, sometimes we name names of companies. This comes from a company called consensus, which is ironic because on this, they do not have consensus. They say, quote, selling is hard. But buying is harder. Selling is hard buying is harder, what? And then it goes into like a whole diatribe on how hard it is to buy shit these days that I’m the tales from sales guy, I’m not the tails from sales guy because I like tails. Alright, I’ve interviewed somebody about selling I’ve been selling since my entire career. People talk about sales as though it is not hard as though it is not difficult as though you are not failing 85% of the time. And that’s success. You know, it’s not as easy as it sounds. And it sure is shit is not easier than buying something that is within your unilateral control. And I don’t care if you’re being tongue in cheek or not. Anything that perpetuates the stereotype that selling is easy pisses me off. I think it’s a lie. And it bothers me
Scott Scully 06:58
is this someone in charge of purchasing?
Jeff Winters 07:02
It’s a it’s a company called consensus.
Scott Scully 07:05
Okay, but the person penning this post is not know someone in charge of purchasing?
Eric Watkins 07:13
Look, they probably sell a purchasing software. That can
Scott Scully 07:17
be that can be a big job. But you’re in charge. You’re the one spending the money. So as long as you go through a process and you interview multiple companies and ask the right questions, I think you’re going to get to the end and pick the right choice. There are so many factors in selling to lie. Sorry to say it’s a lie.
Eric Watkins 07:41
It makes no sense to me. Just There’s nothing. There’s nothing more to say other than that. It’s really easy to buy things. I’m pretty good at buying things
Jeff Winters 07:51
I bought, I buy 100% of the things I want. I sell 10% of the time I want to sell
Scott Scully 07:58
you do as a larger organization need to make sure that you buy in the right way. But it’s easier to do that than sell the big deal. That’s for sure.
Eric Watkins 08:07
It’s definitely easier to make mistakes buying probably. But that’s
Jeff Winters 08:11
I suppose it’s a lie. Yeah, it’s
Scott Scully 08:14
all right. Good stuff out on LinkedIn. Are we still build in LinkedIn most wanted list, Jeff. Oh, it’s certainly work underway. Have we had anybody reaching out wanting to be one of the truths? Or are people putting themselves out
Jeff Winters 08:30
there? No one’s lobbying though. I’ve had a thank you or two. Yeah, yeah. Good, good about that.
Mining for Growth Gold
Scott Scully 16:11
So what do you have to share today? In mining for growth? Gold?
Eric Watkins 16:48
Yeah, I have. So we’re, we’re looking at email for this one. And this is a quick one, but super, super important. So if you’re doing outbound emailing right now, at scale, what you’re going to get is a lot of no matter how good your targeting is, you’re going to get a lot of, well, you actually need to talk to so and so. Are so and so handles this. And what, what mistake a lot of people make, as soon as they’re referred to that other party, is they’ll reach out and say, Hey, I was directed your way. I was told so and so and so told me that you make the decisions for that, is that correct? And they’ll get into this, like big, long conversation, just close the appointment and use the person that that sent you over to them. Hey, Jeff, I actually reached out to Scott and he told me that you were in charge of the sales over there. And that he thought it would make sense for us to meet and talk about our solutions, just assumptive really close the appointment with the referral. And you’ll get way we get a ton of meetings, what we call referral meetings, from this just by assumptive ly closing and going into it. And then as always, with any email, have your templates. So you can send it as quick as possible, add your flavor and, and call them and hit him from both ways. I’m going to email the referral and I’m going to call them right away. But just a simple thing, you can do anybody instead of looking at that as like, oh, we just landed on the wrong person. Use it as a way to close another opportunity.
Jeff Winters 18:24
And when you set it at the end, you snuck it in. I want to I want to bring it to the top because it’s so important email and call. Yep, email and call. Every everything today isn’t about how great can email or how great can you call? Or how great can you social, it’s about which channel works for which people and it’s going to be different based on the person just because Person A responded to an email. Maybe Person B never checks their email, so you know what, email, and then call and then call and then call just to make sure you’re having a multi channel experience for as many prospects as you can because we were just telling a story before the show. We were talking about a super successful CEO hasn’t checked his email since 2009. Fine, we’ll get you on social we’ll we’ll connect with you via the phone. But but don’t assume that people are going to read or open your email just because somebody else that that company did. Make sure it’s a multi channel experience. Make sure you’re communicating with people in the channel that they’re most receptive to. It’s why we
Scott Scully 19:23
came together, right? Yeah, we were good at calls and you were good at email. And now together, both solutions we put into the marketplace serve better offerings for our customers. Awesome. More gold, Eric,
Eric Watkins 19:35
thank you. Pretty simple, but very effective.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 19:38
Now our our Grow nation is sitting on a pile of leads. Jeff, how do we close sales from sales,
Jeff Winters 19:46
sales from sales. My tale today is about mindset. And never perhaps in the history of most sellers of this generation that forever but if this generation has mindset been so important, be Because what I’m hearing is that in certain industries, sales cycles are taken longer. What I’m hearing is more decision makers. What I’m hearing is deadlines missed what I’m hearing is commitments broken. And that takes a toll on the salesperson in sales. It’s interesting, if you’re only losing 75% of the time, you’re an amazing seller. If you’re close to 25% of the deals, you pitch your hall of fame. And so that’s a that’s a lot of opportunities that you’re not winning. And in tougher economic climates, in certain cases, though, that your loss rate could go up. And what I want to focus on today is a like continuing to have the mental perseverance to push through rejection. But more than that, to have the knowledge that you’re not competing against a number, you are competing against a perfect sales call. And the perfect sales call that you had two months ago, is probably not different than the perfect sales call you can make today. But what I see is salespeople who have a month of a slump, or 90 days of a slump and they want to change everything about their approach. Don’t do it. Your mindset has to be let me go back. Listen to the sales calls I was having when I was uber successful, which by the way is 1215 18%. And let me make sure I’m doing that exact same thing. Because I know if I produce a great sales call as my leading indicator, the deals will follow. Don’t go change and stuff up. Greatness before is in all likelihood greatness now, you didn’t change in 45 days. be resilient.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 21:49
Another great tale from sale. It’s been incredible episode. More growth goodies. Growth nuggets for the grown nation. Any parting thoughts? Advice?
Jeff Winters 22:02
Yeah, what parting thoughts or advice might you have?
Eric Watkins 22:06
Well, first, we have an important section to do before we wrap this thing up to do did I try to skip over to try to skip over it? Yeah, come on this but they listen for this what the people want. We gotta give them what they want. Okay, today. This is controversial. Okay, this is I don’t want you all, you know, fighting, etc. Today, I’m gonna give you a situation. And you’re gonna tell me if you would rather have a hot dog or a hamburger? That’s what we’re going to do. That’s what we’re gonna to do or not to do. We’re gonna to do a hot dog or hamburger. First up. Baseball game. Jeff,
Jeff Winters 22:51
that’s easy. It’s a hot dog. All day, Scott.
Scott Scully 22:54
What stadium?
Eric Watkins 22:55
Busch Stadium? Just kidding. Hot dog. Okay, okay, we’re on the same page. All right, next. Wedding wedding. You’re at your wedding. Yeah, and you’re at an I O wedding.
Jeff Winters 23:07
Eric’s gonna get married.
Eric Watkins 23:08
I know you’re you’re at a what? You’re at what you’re at a high wedding and there’s only someone to grill and it’s hot dog or hamburger What are you doing?
Jeff Winters 23:17
I’m hot dog for the to ensure that my my clothes although at this particular wedding, I don’t know what the the attire is. But I don’t want my clothes to get messed up. So I’m happy
Eric Watkins 23:25
to Okay, hamburger, Lou. All right. If you’re grilling What do you eat? You eaten hot dogs or hamburgers?
Jeff Winters 23:31
I don’t want to say I don’t I hate to do this. I’m having another hot dog. You can’t screw up grill and a hot dog I screw up grill and everything else I’m grilling a hot dog but you know maybe.
Scott Scully 23:42
Did you just admit that you screw up on
Jeff Winters 23:44
the grill? Oh, constant. Come on. No. Hamburger
Eric Watkins 23:47
hamburger. I think every situation where I trust who’s cooking I’m going hamburger every other situation. I’m going hot dog. I think that’s what it is for me. So Jeff had probably your hot dog too.
Jeff Winters 23:58
Thank you. Yeah.
Scott Scully 24:00
Do you like brats? I hot dog or brats? Hot dog. 100% of the time?
Jeff Winters 24:09
Yeah, probably.
Eric Watkins 24:11
Yeah, sometime. Yeah, I think broths though. I think Brad’s sometimes broads tastes weird though. There’s something about him. They’re like the texture. They’re too chewy. Yeah,
Scott Scully 24:21
riveting content about hamburgers and hot dogs. I think we would like to hear though. Hot dogs or hamburgers? Are you going to tell him where give them an event? Okay, gotta tell us how Fourth of
Eric Watkins 24:33
July 4 of July you could get both. I mean I’ve had both you know and but you gotta pick one quintessential barbecue holiday whoever is grilling has got the mid calf socks on they got the dad shoes and they got an apron on so that’s that’s all the facts I’m giving you as are all the facts dad shoes and an apron choosing an apron and the high socks multiple you know device you know that? Yeah, you know they mean business. Oh, All right, grow nation.
Scott Scully 25:00
We want to hear from you. Hot dogs or hamburgers. And then tell us which one of these tips you’re going to put into play this month. We’d love to hear that and hear how it’s gone. As always, let’s grow. Let’s grow.
Recent studies have found that the average manager spends three hours a day on interruptions or activities that are not the most important for their organization. This is why we developed the playbook for managers – a simple system that helps busy professionals optimize their time and make the most out of every day.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to the growth show. I am here with my co hosts, Eric Watkins, and Jeff winters. Are you gentlemen doing today? Welcome back.
Eric Watkins 00:10
Welcome back to doing great,
Scott Scully 00:12
I have to mention, I had the incredible opportunity to have a conversation with one of our clients this week. And that particular client had been listening to the growth show and wanted to talk about a couple of the episodes, wanted to dive a little bit deeper into the map and the a player score. And God, we had just an amazing conversation. And that’s exactly what we wanted to have happen. Right? We wanted people to plug in and just take a few nuggets away and make things just a little bit easier in in their path to growth. And I just wanted to open with that. Because it first of all, was an incredible conversation. Great guy, great business, we’re lucky to be partners. And, you know, second, we set out on a mission for this growth show. And it’s working. And we’re hearing the feedback. And that’s exciting.
Eric Watkins 01:05
It’s so cool to see it start to come to fruition, right? We I remember we were in that conference room over there talking about this idea of how can we put something together that would benefit our clients and our people here internally. And, you know, that’s the that’s a big step forward.
Scott Scully 01:23
So without further ado, Mr. Winters, what do you got for us today?
Jeff Winters 01:28
I’m getting good feedback on the segment. You should be people see what we see. They know what’s going on. They know that people write and shit on LinkedIn. And they’re like, What is this can’t be right. Or this is genius. Let’s start with some genius. This in our two truths and a lie segment from LinkedIn comes from Sean Gentry. Sean says Damn, what a finish to the quarter. My team was at 46% on Friday, and we finished at 96% by Tuesday evening. So obviously, you know, this particular quarter ended on a Tuesday. And I’ll paraphrase some of the rest. It’s it’s not 100%. But if I separate process from outcome, I’m damn proud. This is truly the result of some heroic efforts. Yes, we saw some Docu signs coming back. But here’s went on behind the scenes. And he lists a number of things that went on behind the scenes, but then he he capitalized one, nonstop positive thinking and optimism is the one he capitalized and there’s some tactical stuff before it. In this day and age of sales. So much is made about the data, close rates, the meeting rates, the show rates, the this rate the that rate, you know what not enough is made out of the optimism. People lose when they think they’ve lost. They’ve already it’s Oh, it’s over. sales leaders under index on optimism and belief and how much power that creates
Eric Watkins 02:56
truth. What’s your optimism, right?
Jeff Winters 03:01
Like lining Scott up like, like a ton of wound him up now.
Scott Scully 03:05
Truth about optimism. But again, I gotta be honest, this one drags on me a little bit, because it’s yet another person celebrating falling short of a goal. This is like the, you know, eighth grade soccer team that was down five to nothing at halftime, came back, they lose five to four. And they’re celebrating and going out for ice cream for their loss. I think it’s great that they came back by almost 50%. But I also think that it’s what’s clearly wrong around the world is we’re starting to celebrate Mrs. And there’s a lot of attaboys. And it’s a 4%. Miss, I have difficulty not saying that. Because it’s what’s going on everywhere. The goal was the goal. I’m glad that they came back. I’m a huge believer in the fact that attitude, like got to keep a positive attitude. Their positive attitude certainly allowed them to get to where they got, but this guy’s publicly posting that he’s proud of his team to get to 96% I think I would have said it a little bit in a little bit different way. Because now I’m reading that post. He’s proud of us. We came back. We didn’t hit the goal. I could talk for a long time about this. I won’t.
Jeff Winters 04:25
Alright, but I’m going to push you on the optimism thing, because I know you’ve you’re distracted by the gold thing. I know. But but on the optimism piece, can I can I center you on the optimism piece because you’ve I’ve learned from you in this area. Others should be the beneficiaries of
Scott Scully 04:38
Yeah, but the people aren’t running through the line. Like if you’re on track when you when you’re growing up. It’s like you’re working on form and breathing and all the stuff but a lot of people don’t run through the line. So you literally sit there and practice running past the line sticking your chest out form all that and I think we’re running through the line anymore. So yes, optimism matters. But can we tweak that? And can we keep a good attitude all the way through, but also marry it with, I’m going to hit the goal no matter what, instead of celebrating, not hitting the goal. I know, I knew I knew I was gonna I knew I was gonna piss people. I’m pissing our truth guy off,
Jeff Winters 05:25
not disagree with the truth. That’s fair. What I
Eric Watkins 05:27
think is really important about this is when you’re down as a leader, it’s very easy to start pointing out all the things going wrong. So as the sales leader, okay, we’re at 46%, you can dive in and point out, well, we’re not doing this and you’re not doing that, and that deals not coming in and that and then you define reality for everybody of like, we’re gonna miss the goal. Yeah. And some of the best sales leaders that I’ve seen don’t do that. They talk about why it’s possible that get them to believe and why we can still hit the goal. I agree. 96% is not 100% 99% is the same as zero. But I do love the optimism, like relentless like, almost doesn’t even make sense at a certain point. And I’ve seen it work like just it’s there’s so much belief involved in that.
Scott Scully 06:15
I, you know, I gotta think in this scenario, at the dismal percentage that they were at real close to the end, that there’s more shit that could have happened in the beginning of the quarter, being optimistic pouring into people doing things early to where they wouldn’t have been behind by that much. And then you and then your goal as well. Right. Looks
Jeff Winters 06:41
mixed reviews. Sorry, that the heart I think we have truth at the heart. But we were derailed by the
Scott Scully 06:48
idea around it. I
Jeff Winters 06:49
didn’t want to point fingers. But you got your segment next. Scott, Eric, we’re lucky we’ve got we’ve got we’ve got listeners of all levels of experience here on the gross show. And I think we talk a lot to the most experienced sure this is a truth. For some of our emerging folks in their career, maybe a little younger. This comes from Daniel Botero, he says your manager is more important than your paycheck. If you are a job seeker and looking for your first job, I would make sure you have the chance to meet or even interview your future manager, I sometimes get asked like, if you could go back and do anything differently, what would you do the first few years of your career to me, I would go back and I would take way less money. And I would have way more learning, like learn as much as you can from great leaders as quickly as you can. That’s so much more important than, okay, I four offers, I’m going to take the highest paying job No, take the job where there’s the most growth, take the job where there’s the best leaders take the job, where you start, and you go, wow, in two or three years, I could soar. If I have the you know, the work ethic and I can do everything I can to be great in my career, like go work for somebody who’s amazing. It’ll set you on a totally different track. I think this is true,
Eric Watkins 08:09
I am going to slightly agree and disagree. I agree. I would love to work for a new leader. But I think what’s more important as you work for the right company that has growth and opportunity, because realistically, if you do go to a growth company, you’re not going to be working for the same leader for a while you’re going to be moving through different positions or different ranks. So yes, I would I would absolutely where possible, why not meet your leader. And make sure that you, you feel like this is somebody you’re going to admire someone you’re going to learn from but ultimately, I think get yourself in a position where you’re going to have the ability to grow and your work is going to be rewarded. The effort you put in.
Scott Scully 08:54
Yeah, I just say make sure to do the research on the organization you’re gonna go work for, I guess, I think that’s part of the interview process. Right, that you’re asking questions as well. That’s certainly what the person that’s interviewing you wants you to do is to participate and ask good questions and be curious. And I think if you do that, you will find out what you need. And I would agree with Eric, if it’s the right organization. It’s not necessarily about your first leader. It’s more about mission and values in that organization itself. And if you’re confident in yourself that the person will be working for you. Definitely do your research on the way in and ask good questions.
Jeff Winters 09:39
I think the point of this is, if you are a first time job seeker, don’t go to the highest paycheck Right? Or only go to the highest paycheck whether it’s leader or company, leader, sort of byproduct of the company. Don’t go to the highest don’t just take the highest paycheck like if I’m coming out of college. It’s so easy to go this job I make 71,000 wasn’t in this job I make 68,000 I’m gonna 71 It’s like, no, there’s more to that. And it’s hard when you’re 22 years old, 23 years old, 19 years old. To think a little bit longer term.
Scott Scully 10:11
Make sure there are other positions. And a lot of growth. Yeah. And that you’re going to learn
Eric Watkins 10:16
focus on what what are you going to be making in five years? Yeah, not this year? Not this year, not even next year. None of that matters. What are you going to be making in five years? And what skill set are you going to have that’s transferable? Through a lot of different positions
Jeff Winters 10:31
are great truth. Now we come to this light comes from Mark. Mark says, hitting numbers should not give you any comfort during a riff or layoff, driven by macro economic challenges. In times like these, the big attributes are attitude and contribution to organizational improvements, not simply on delivering a number that’s icing on the cake. No, that’s wrong. That’s wrong. When you’re looking at people in the aggregate. To say, you know, in the unfortunate situation, you got to lay people off or what performance matters. There’s no attitude quotient. There’s no organizational improvement. quotient, you got to perform like if for people in a tougher environment, make sure you’re hitting your number, it’s not icing on the cake, it is the cake. But highest
Scott Scully 11:25
performers don’t get laid off period. They could even semi skew, not super great to be around and not get cut. If they’re performing at a high enough level. I believe in the good attitude and teamwork and working well with others. But when you’re at a crunch, and an organization, you need people to get results.
Jeff Winters 11:47
Hitting numbers shouldn’t give you any comfort.
Eric Watkins 11:50
Yeah, that’s a lot.
Scott Scully 11:51
And I’d wonder why you’re in a such a damn good mood missing numbers if our backs against the wall and we’re potentially having to lay off? Yeah,
Jeff Winters 12:00
I don’t know. We’re looking at a couple of different people. You got Eric who’s crushing his numbers. But Jeff suchen. Come on, come on. Come on Mark. It’s a lie. That’s a lie,
50 for 50
Scott Scully 12:12
Mark, you’re a liar. As always good stuff. Glad you’re out there. Finding the truth and calling out the lies. We are now to the 5050. I’m super excited about this one. This is something that we use across our entire organization. We’ve done it for years, it works. But before I get into it, I wanted to call out a couple of stats did a little research to support this. Did you know average manager spends at least three hours a day on unforeseen interruptions. Does that make sense? Can you see that happening?
Eric Watkins 12:55
I could see that happening
Jeff Winters 12:56
lines outside manager doors of people waiting to interrupt.
Scott Scully 13:01
So I come into my day with the action plan in place. Maybe the best ones do, I guess the worst ones deal with their day as as it comes. And almost half of my day is interruptions and things that I didn’t have planned, that’s disruptive, that could seriously cause a lack of productivity. The other thing that I found in multiple places, and it ranged from, let’s call it 72 to 80%. of total time in a workday is spent on things that are not the most important things for the organization 72 to 80% of all the tasks that people are doing, because they are not organized, right, because they don’t have the right action plan. That’s what’s happening during the day, a very 20% of the things that people are doing are actually skewed towards being you know, the most important things that lead towards success. I think we saw that early on, we’ve got people that have a lot of things going on, they’re wearing multiple hats, and you only have five days in a week, you only have you know, eight to 10 hours in a day. And so a long time ago, we got into time blocking, we call it our playbook. And then each time blocked within the playbook. We call that a play, then it’s all about work in your playbook during the week and running the place. You know a lot of things that we’ve brought up. I know we talk we say when you hear this, you probably think it’s we’re being micromanagers you know what, what we’re trying to do is put together an action plan and show people how they can fit everything into different buckets and actually get the work done by the end of the week. People feel overwhelmed. Everybody wants balance. And when somebody isn’t you No running a playbook. And, and running the plays during that day. They’re working 12 hours, they’re stressed when they go home, you know, their loved ones see that they’re not making the money that they could make. So let’s take an account manager as an example. Like within our organization, they have 50 accounts. And there’s a lot of things that go on with those 50 accounts. They’re interacting with our fulfillment team, they’re interacting with operations. They could be getting client calls, they’re having client calls, they’re preparing for client calls. They’re going and training an SDR on client specifics. They’re adjusting a list they’re making sure Invoicing is right, they’re going to best practices training. It’s just it’s a lot of things in a day. But if we take Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and we put time blocks together, and we say okay, here’s when you’re listening to calls scoring them, here’s when you’re providing feedback to STRS. Here’s when you’re doing monthly results, meetings or client meetings, here’s the actual time period where you would deal with any issues that may come up all those different blocks, and we train people to follow that schedule. And then we have standard operating procedures for the main buckets that key out on their major metrics, you can put all of that stuff that comes at you during the day into exact time periods. And if you stay committed to that you can murder the day, you know, so those interruptions, the three hours of interruptions that managers receive, maybe it shouldn’t actually be three hours, but there are interruptions, those would go in an exact area, I would have a block where as a manager, I’m having my sessions with people, I would have a block where I’m dealing with client issues, or operational issues. So that’s what we do. We design playbooks for every position in the building, we take all of their key activities, we time block them throughout the week. And then we manage to that. We coached them in following that exact playbook. And guess what, then all of a sudden, somebody can have a little balance. They’re feeling better, we’re being more productive. And our organization is growing. Yeah, have to do this. If you want to be able to manage growth and grow year over year, what do you what do you guys think, Jeff, what do you I want to talk
Jeff Winters 17:41
about the a couple of really positive outcomes from this. But before I do, like, there’s a, there’s a temptation to not quite understand the logistics here, especially for higher level leaders. So for example, I designing in the process of designing my perfect playbook as the chief revenue officer of a, you know, soon to be 100 million dollar company. I’m designing my blocks on the one division sales floor, talking to the salespeople, that’s not something you typically associate in your schedule, like people think of a schedule, they go, it’s 15 minutes of email tasks, and then chat, and then this and then something, it doesn’t have to be that way. It’s the idea of blocking the time and space to do an activity. Even if it’s a little fuzzier, quote, unquote, or more sort of important to the morale of the group, I think that’s really important. I’ll give you two quick things that I think a really good positive consequences of this, number one, managers become less of the easy button, it’s so easy for me as a, as an individual contributor, to have an issue. And as opposed to just really thinking deeply and solving it, I’m gonna go to my manager, my manager solves it. That’s it. And it’s like, okay, that’s bad. That’s bad, not having the time and space to solve issues. And to delay, the time at which you can go to your manager’s office is really an important thing. And a really good positive consequence of this. And the second is often you have issues that are cross departmental cross team cross manager, and then the amount of time the manager or leader spends on distractions multiplies, because my distraction isn’t just you coming to me ask me a question. That question involves Steve and Susie and Joe and and Ina. Okay, well, now I gotta go get them. What are they doing now? I’m distracting those people. So the distractions multiply, as opposed to, you know, we’re gonna block a time in the day or a time in the week, or we’re all gonna get together, you’re gonna save all the things you need to ask this group for that time. And you reduce distractions by an order of magnitude for all those people. I think those are some things that I’ve seen recently really help from a leadership perspective.
Eric Watkins 19:50
That’s a great point. And don’t underestimate how many times a day your people are wondering what they should do next. And how much time that alone just waste So what I love about this, when I get really committed to it and doing it is I don’t have to think about what I’m doing next, I know what I’m going to do. And then I’m focused on instead of what to do, I’m focused on, how do I do that thing really, really well, which creates efficiency creates productivity. And then the other thing is, you mentioned we talked about the distractions is any manager, you’re going to like, that’s the thing that’s going to come up a lot and kill your productivity. Because it’s not only the distraction, it has you switching back and forth from task all the time. And you don’t just do that seamlessly. If you you’re in the middle of something and someone comes in, you don’t just magically pick it back up, it takes a little bit to figure out where you’re at, etc. And that it’s just goes into the multitasking thing, which is, is impossible. But I think initially, as you roll this out within your organization, it’s gonna get a lot of pushback, they’re gonna think it’s micromanaging. But the The goal is for them to have a desirable future. The goal is, I want to make your life easier, and make you more money, you have more success in the position. And it’s one of those things where you just have to sort of force people to do it. But when they come out on the other side, they love it, they appreciate it in people that come to our organization, and then leave, go and block their schedule at the next place that they go, because they’ve learned that habit, and it helps them for the rest of their life. So big, big deal.
Scott Scully 21:27
Good feedback is so dependent on how long you’ve been listening, you know, you’ve heard us talk about a map, or best practices sessions or quote, unquote, forced recognition, or the a player score, you’re probably starting to notice that all this stuff ties together, we’ve got a playbook or a schedule within that schedule is when I’m going to have a map with somebody when the best practices going to be there, the a player score is actually wraps up into this, you know, because if they’re running their schedule, we do the Quality audits, and then that’s part of the a player score itself, that they’re actually doing the things that we laid out for people to do within the position, this works, I promise you, my homework would be this, think about. And just start with the positions where you have the most people in those positions, think about their top 10 activities. And, and time block those. Think about the things they spend the most time doing and just start with that. For the key positions where you have the most people within those positions, do that for a month. And let us know how it goes. I think you’re gonna see ridiculous results, put it into action. All right, we, how are we going to get more leads.
Mining for Growth Gold
Eric Watkins 22:56
So in order to get more leads, you first have to clearly define success. And this is something that we talked about a little bit in season one, but it’s so important, I want to hit on it again. And that is stop over qualifying your meetings. That is one of the biggest mistakes that we have made here internally over the years. And we’ve learned from it. And just based on our experience, this is how you should define a quality meeting. It’s three things, it’s really simple. Step one, right company, right company doesn’t mean sweetspot it doesn’t mean the perfect target, it means anybody that you would be willing to do business with a right company, be right person. And what right person means is anybody involved in the decision making process, we have stats now that say, on average, each deal is 3.2 decision makers that are involved in those meetings, you’re going to have to work through different people to be able to get these deals closed. So you want to meet with anybody involved in the decision making process. Step three, clearly agrees to meet about the services you provide. So notice, I don’t have anything about interest. I don’t have anything about need. This is the right company, right person and they clearly agree to meet about your services. And here’s why. First thing people don’t buy because they’re interested in something and people don’t buy because they need something they buy because of pain they buy because they have a problem. And a lot of people don’t know their problems. So the first thing I talk about the iceberg philosophy on a cold call on a cold email 10% of what comes out to a stranger that’s on the phone with them at all, we’re gonna get his 10% when you have that first meeting and you sit across from that prospect, you have the rest of that to uncover. Second thing. If you wait and you only want to set meetings with people that are looking to buy your service, all you have done is increased the competition that you’re going at the further along they are in the buying cycle, the more likely you are to be running up against different competition. So we want to get in there early because we have a long term sales process approach. And then when that time comes, and they’ve realized that pain, you know, they would go to us. And then I talked about the decision makers per closed deal. I think this is a huge thing. I think, ultimately, I’ve been doing this for a while we all have. And if you’re overqualified your meetings, you are losing opportunities. I’ve listened to 1000s of calls. I’ve read the emails, there’s huge deals that we are closing where you would listen to the call, and you would have no idea.
Scott Scully 25:38
I love it. I wish we could talk about this one thing on every show to you salespeople, here’s why I would want to go out on every meeting, in addition to what Eric’s saying, which is super, super important that you want to be in front of like all the people that influenced the decision, because then you can now take a little bit more time, now that you have a scheduled time to really uncover what’s going on within their organization. But I don’t think we think enough about how you are networking, you are building your tribe, there’s nothing better than interacting with a salesperson that is respectful, asks good questions, even if you’re not buying at that particular time, I appreciated the opportunity. And then when they do that, if I’m in the market later, great, but what about the referrals? You can crap? What about the fact that that guy or girls out on the golf course the next week, and here’s that their friend that runs a business is in need of a particular service. And they didn’t need it right now. But hey, I just met with Eric, he was an incredible guy really good. We just didn’t need it right now. I’ll connect you to you are building your tribe, great point, get referrals, your branding, your name, and your differentiators in the heads of all of these people, go see all of them or get on a zoom with all of them. It’s amazing how these people that you don’t sell will actually end up selling for you when treated the right way.
Jeff Winters 27:13
Yeah. Eric in two successive, or maybe in a couple, maybe two or three that you brought us that the pyramid theory and then this was the Iceberg Theory is that what that was that was that was really nice, sort of a metaphor, because there’s a lot beneath the surface, I was really good. That’s what the listeners get baby, you come here you get real, intellectual, open minded, incredible deep. Thank you, Jeff, I want to follow to pile on in a different in a different way. The decision, I have to meet with the decision maker, only the person that makes the final decision, that is something that that we need to like lose as sales society. And I’ll give you a few reasons. First, yes, there are lots of more lots more decision makers in a particular company. But now, the bottoms up this quote unquote, product lead growth is a very material and significant development in the way that people buy and the way that companies buy. What’s happening now more and more and more as, think about Slack is the perfect example a chat tool, someone in the organization buys the free version, and then two people have it and then 10 people have it. And then it’s bubbling up with such vigor that the leaders like this is great, we ought to investigate. If you can get influencers to go to their leaders and go, we got to have this and here’s why. It’s not the traditional buying cycle of let’s go to the decision maker, the decision maker makes the decision drives it down to the people, everybody’s happy. Like that’s not as much how decisions are being made. No. So that’s number one is this bottoms up significant change in the way people buy. Don’t underestimate the influencers, your quote unquote, champions. Number two, I won’t and I think I said this in our in another different episode as the CEO of sapra, when it was totally up to me, right? I’m never meeting with anyone on health insurance when doing it, pass it to my HR person. I said, Trust me, I’m never meeting with anyone to discuss health insurance. I want the best health insurance for my team members, I promise and for all their significant others and families and pets. I’m just not meeting with you about it. My HR person who runs HR, who’s incredibly competent, and amazing and brilliant. She has full authority. She can make whatever decision on healthcare she wants. I’m never meeting with you on it. I bet there were people who would never take a meeting with the non quote unquote final decision maker and lost out on our health insurance business. Yep. Don’t be one of those
Scott Scully 29:24
people. Artists like that. You were thinking of people’s pets.
Jeff Winters 29:28
Always Always. Always. sighs personal care. It’s an Iceberg Theory who you are on the top is you and then your me has surface pets family member Yeah, beneath. That’s why it’s beneath Iceberg Theory.
Eric Watkins 22:56
So in order to get more leads, you first have to clearly define success. And this is something that we talked about a little bit in season one, but it’s so important, I want to hit on it again. And that is stop over qualifying your meetings. That is one of the biggest mistakes that we have made here internally over the years. And we’ve learned from it. And just based on our experience, this is how you should define a quality meeting. It’s three things, it’s really simple. Step one, right company, right company doesn’t mean sweetspot it doesn’t mean the perfect target, it means anybody that you would be willing to do business with a right company, be right person. And what right person means is anybody involved in the decision making process, we have stats now that say, on average, each deal is 3.2 decision makers that are involved in those meetings, you’re going to have to work through different people to be able to get these deals closed. So you want to meet with anybody involved in the decision making process. Step three, clearly agrees to meet about the services you provide. So notice, I don’t have anything about interest. I don’t have anything about need. This is the right company, right person and they clearly agree to meet about your services. And here’s why. First thing people don’t buy because they’re interested in something and people don’t buy because they need something they buy because of pain they buy because they have a problem. And a lot of people don’t know their problems. So the first thing I talk about the iceberg philosophy on a cold call on a cold email 10% of what comes out to a stranger that’s on the phone with them at all, we’re gonna get his 10% when you have that first meeting and you sit across from that prospect, you have the rest of that to uncover. Second thing. If you wait and you only want to set meetings with people that are looking to buy your service, all you have done is increased the competition that you’re going at the further along they are in the buying cycle, the more likely you are to be running up against different competition. So we want to get in there early because we have a long term sales process approach. And then when that time comes, and they’ve realized that pain, you know, they would go to us. And then I talked about the decision makers per closed deal. I think this is a huge thing. I think, ultimately, I’ve been doing this for a while we all have. And if you’re overqualified your meetings, you are losing opportunities. I’ve listened to 1000s of calls. I’ve read the emails, there’s huge deals that we are closing where you would listen to the call, and you would have no idea.
Scott Scully 25:38
I love it. I wish we could talk about this one thing on every show to you salespeople, here’s why I would want to go out on every meeting, in addition to what Eric’s saying, which is super, super important that you want to be in front of like all the people that influenced the decision, because then you can now take a little bit more time, now that you have a scheduled time to really uncover what’s going on within their organization. But I don’t think we think enough about how you are networking, you are building your tribe, there’s nothing better than interacting with a salesperson that is respectful, asks good questions, even if you’re not buying at that particular time, I appreciated the opportunity. And then when they do that, if I’m in the market later, great, but what about the referrals? You can crap? What about the fact that that guy or girls out on the golf course the next week, and here’s that their friend that runs a business is in need of a particular service. And they didn’t need it right now. But hey, I just met with Eric, he was an incredible guy really good. We just didn’t need it right now. I’ll connect you to you are building your tribe, great point, get referrals, your branding, your name, and your differentiators in the heads of all of these people, go see all of them or get on a zoom with all of them. It’s amazing how these people that you don’t sell will actually end up selling for you when treated the right way.
Jeff Winters 27:13
Yeah. Eric in two successive, or maybe in a couple, maybe two or three that you brought us that the pyramid theory and then this was the Iceberg Theory is that what that was that was that was really nice, sort of a metaphor, because there’s a lot beneath the surface, I was really good. That’s what the listeners get baby, you come here you get real, intellectual, open minded, incredible deep. Thank you, Jeff, I want to follow to pile on in a different in a different way. The decision, I have to meet with the decision maker, only the person that makes the final decision, that is something that that we need to like lose as sales society. And I’ll give you a few reasons. First, yes, there are lots of more lots more decision makers in a particular company. But now, the bottoms up this quote unquote, product lead growth is a very material and significant development in the way that people buy and the way that companies buy. What’s happening now more and more and more as, think about Slack is the perfect example a chat tool, someone in the organization buys the free version, and then two people have it and then 10 people have it. And then it’s bubbling up with such vigor that the leaders like this is great, we ought to investigate. If you can get influencers to go to their leaders and go, we got to have this and here’s why. It’s not the traditional buying cycle of let’s go to the decision maker, the decision maker makes the decision drives it down to the people, everybody’s happy. Like that’s not as much how decisions are being made. No. So that’s number one is this bottoms up significant change in the way people buy. Don’t underestimate the influencers, your quote unquote, champions. Number two, I won’t and I think I said this in our in another different episode as the CEO of sapra, when it was totally up to me, right? I’m never meeting with anyone on health insurance when doing it, pass it to my HR person. I said, Trust me, I’m never meeting with anyone to discuss health insurance. I want the best health insurance for my team members, I promise and for all their significant others and families and pets. I’m just not meeting with you about it. My HR person who runs HR, who’s incredibly competent, and amazing and brilliant. She has full authority. She can make whatever decision on healthcare she wants. I’m never meeting with you on it. I bet there were people who would never take a meeting with the non quote unquote final decision maker and lost out on our health insurance business. Yep. Don’t be one of those
Scott Scully 29:24
people. Artists like that. You were thinking of people’s pets.
Jeff Winters 29:28
Always Always. Always. sighs personal care. It’s an Iceberg Theory who you are on the top is you and then your me has surface pets family member Yeah, beneath. That’s why it’s beneath Iceberg Theory.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 29:40
We’re going over to tales from sales can’t wait. You are sitting on a pile of leaves Jeff. Howard, they’re going to close
Jeff Winters 29:53
so much beneath the surface. So today’s tale from sales is all about A slightly different, more sales driven take on the old phrase, the riches are in the niches, the riches are in the niches. And there is a business strategy discussion to be had here. And I know that we will, at some point in Scotts 50 for 50, because Scott’s extremely passionate about it, and built multiple businesses using this as a cornerstone of a strategy. But that’s not what I’m talking about, and Tales from sales. What I’m talking about and Tales from sales is, as you are speaking to prospects in different industries, how are you talking their language? How are you ensuring that you as a salesperson, or your salespeople, as a sales leader, are able to make those prospects feel like you know, their specific pain, you know, their specific situation, you’ve been there, your team has been there, your account managers have been there, and you can deliver for them. The language you speak to a particular industry, the problem you solve in a particular industry, the way instead of saying revenue in some industries, its assets under management, the way you talk about, is this a good prospect? What makes a good prospect versus saying, you know, I know typically, you work with folks where the building is around 50,000 square feet, those little differences make enormous impacts in the minds of prospects. How do you do this? How do you get your team so that they can be experts in every industry? And the truth is, you can’t do it, but you can, you can sure, help them. So we’ve been doing something as of late that I want people to take away as a tip that you can do today. There’s this tool, many are familiar with an open AI chat GPT. It’s a great tool. And it effectively like in an automated way uses artificial intelligence to write any number of different things, websites and emails, whatever. So we’ve been doing is we’ve been using this prompt that says, act as though you are an expert in X industry. And tell us what are the five most pressing issues you’re dealing with right now. And it writes, and we’ll put that in a spreadsheet. And then we’ll go through, we’ll have another few buckets for those particular industries. And we create in literally three minutes, what we call battle cards for each industry. So now when the sales reps are going into these calls, they’re armed with these battle cards that have all the vernacular, we’ve got multiple different questions. And it happens in a nanosecond, and enables them to talk to these industries in their language. And it’s makes an enormous difference in the mind of the prospect. So this is a riches in the niches take specific to sales, and a little hot tip for how to arm your salespeople with a surefire way to talk to prospects and in the language that they speak.
Scott Scully 32:49
I love it. Just some other things to pile on to take it even deeper. And I do it if I were you if you’re targeting particular niches is I’ve obviously having a web page for that particular industry. So on your website, I would have industries we serve. And I’d actually have a page for each one of those industries and flooded with your keywords, obviously, that’s going to help from an SEO perspective, I’d have a case study, I’d have success stories in the industry. I’d have a video testimonial in that particular industry, a sell sheet for that industry infographic for that industry, and potentially adjust your pitch deck for that industry so that you can be so specific in their niche that like Jeff said, you’re going to accomplish what you’re looking to accomplish, which is, I know the seat you’re sitting in, we specialize in your particular industry, and we can help you out.
Eric Watkins 33:48
Sales is all about trust. And it’s hard to trust somebody who you feel like has no idea what situation you’re in and while you’re going through. So think it’s a really big deal. And I think the other thing is, as a sales rep, one thing you can do is don’t just tell sell on these calls, dig a little bit, learn these industries, ask a couple questions. That’s how our sales reps learn these industries. They just start calling them and they start asking questions. It’s okay to be upfront about what you don’t know, in some certain situations, as long as you’re the expert on what you’re selling, and the problems you solve,
Scott Scully 34:22
you know, a different way to do this too. Because some people are listening and maybe they’re thinking, Well, I just can’t do it per industry. We’ve got 1000s of industry were were a piece of software that helps with productivity, but it doesn’t have to be a particular industry. I think that you can still niche out and say, here’s what I would do when you know dealing with marketing directors. Here’s what I would do when I’m talking to, you know, VP of sales. Here’s what I do when I’m talking to the CEO. Because instead of saying I know the IT industry and I know the chair you’re sitting in, I can make it Like, look, I deal with lots of CEOs and I know the things that you have to deal with on a daily basis. And here’s how we help you run your organization more effectively and get you some more sleep at night. Does that make sense? Like, if you can’t do the actual niche, you got to find something to niche. So it might be the actual role that you’re selling to
Eric Watkins 35:21
persona Lusatian
Scott Scully 35:23
Here you go.
Jeff Winters 35:24
Personalization. The other thing that’s got, I just don’t be intimidated by the number of niche, you know, like, I get that too. I definitely personas but don’t be intimidated by the number of niches, do five at a time and then do a few more when somebody’s talking to me. And they know and I can tell they know, marketing lead gen. And we’re diving into the talk, you know, talk to me about, you know, your contact rate talk to me going okay, this is somebody knows what I’m talking about they I feel good having this conversation? Sure.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 35:54
That’s good. Well, we are there. We’re at everybody’s favorite section to do. We’re not today.
Eric Watkins 36:03
Okay, but I think I have a good. And I love that I never just for the listeners out there. I never tell them what it’s going to be. I like to surprise them just to see see their reactions. So I have my cousin’s wedding today. And, you know, I have my own wedding coming up. And I wanted to ask, do you think you should be on the dance floor for the first song? Like the all the stuff is done? It’s time for everybody to come dance. Should you be on the dance floor for the first song? Scott, you’re up first.
Scott Scully 36:42
Okay, can I ask you a question? Yes. So are you saying should there be like the first dance? Or are you saying now that all that’s happened the bride’s dance with the Father and everything?
Eric Watkins 36:54
Yep. You’re the guy. You’re the guest at the party?
Scott Scully 36:58
Yes. Because you go through the different series of dances, and then they call everybody out your dance a song or two, and then you, you know, sneak out it’s like, yeah, like you not out of the place. But you’ve got a lot of things to do at a wedding. Unfortunately, you would think that you wouldn’t have to make it about everybody else that’s there. But you do. So you dance a couple of songs, and then you go and see grandma and aunt and your great aunt and your cousin you haven’t seen forever, for you gotta be out there for the first song or two.
Eric Watkins 37:31
I respect that.
Jeff Winters 37:32
Yeah, no, no, no, no, I, I need to kinda see what’s happening. You know, I need a bird’s eye view. So as soon as the music comes out, it’s like, that’s bug repellent. I’m I’m the other way. I’m gonna go to the bar. I’m going to kind of lean I’m gonna serve a may have a drink or two or three. Then I’ll kind of get ease my way in. He’s not going and ideally, I’m not dancing at all. i Hey, I’m a bad dancer. I am not good at it. I don’t know where my arms are going. I’m bad. I’m bad. I’m a bad admittedly bad dancer. And my wife is good at but I’m not I’m not like she can’t find me for the first couple of songs. I’ve gone somewhere. So I’m I’m a No You’re no I’m a no on the floor. I need to let let the good dancers go dance like you should fill up the dance floor. Be excited for that. Amy. I have.
Eric Watkins 38:26
I have a hot take. It’s more embarrassing to be a good dancer than it is to be a bad dancer. Like they’re, you know, at the last wedding I was at there’s this guy doing his thing, like doing these little breakdance thinks and it’s like, cool for a song or two. But when you’re out there for 10 songs. Nobody wants to see that anymore.
Jeff Winters 38:43
Are you good dancer? No, I’m
Eric Watkins 38:44
not a good dancer.
Jeff Winters 38:46
Are you like wedding? Like,
Eric Watkins 38:48
here’s my thing. If you’re gonna pay for me to come to your wedding, which is a lot of money for a lot of people. I’m going to be out on the dance floor for the first song. I’m not going to be one of those people hiding at the bar. Like Jeff,
Jeff Winters 38:59
you said hide. Yeah, I said Hang. Hey.
Scott Scully 39:03
You literally coward. You left your wife with cousin Eddie on the dance floor.
Jeff Winters 39:08
I’d be thrilled. I’d be thrilled with other men dancing with my wife on it. That would be that would make my night I don’t care who it is. be thrilled. Couldn’t care less. Mind if I cut in mind who throat cut in? Where are you then? Yeah.
Scott Scully 39:26
All right, good stuff again, as always on the gross show. We’d like to invite you to subscribe, like, share, comment, interact with us and as always, be kind grow and grind.
Jeff Winters 39:41
Growing growing economy. The growth show is sponsored by bionic STR outreach playbook design.
A positive company culture is the key to long-term sustained success. It helps teams feel valued and motivated, which in turn leads to greater engagement and productivity. Learn how we’ve built an award-winning culture that helps attract and retain team members.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Hey, what’s up, grow nation. Welcome back to the growth show. My name is Scott Scully. I’m here with Jeff winters and Eric Watkins. Welcome, gentlemen.
Jeff Winters 00:10
Welcome back, Eric.
Eric Watkins 00:11
Welcome back, Jeffrey, and welcome back. Scott, welcome
Scott Scully 00:14
back. Thank you. Thank you. We have some good stuff to go over today. And this show is all about making it just a little bit easier for you to grow, grow, show stories from the front lines, no textbook, no theory, actual things we’ve put into action that are helping us grow. And we just want to make a little easier on you in your path. So we love to start with a little section that Jeff calls two truths and a lie. Let’s get into it,
Jeff Winters 00:43
getting the positive feedback on this. As people keep liking the two truths and a lie from LinkedIn. I’m gratified by it. But it’s a lot of pressure. I gotta find this stuff. We got to talk about this stuff. I gotta go first. It’s not easy. All right.
Eric Watkins 01:01
How about all of your troops not being tourists the past couple of weeks? I think that’s good. I think that’s good. Yeah. Okay.
Scott Scully 01:09
Part of them. Part of them.
Eric Watkins 01:10
You’re arresting the wrong people. I guess that’s what I’m saying.
Jeff Winters 01:13
According to you, man. Oh, that’s good. I’m never gonna falsely accused falsely
Eric Watkins 01:18
accused on LinkedIn. falsework. Yeah, just you’re better, you’re safer just to not post on LinkedIn. If Jeff’s gonna be the sheriff.
Jeff Winters 01:27
Johnny, it’s a player led team will always be more successful than a coach led team. Once team members take maximum ownership over their own leadership, you have the making of a powerful team that will preserve, I find this to be a universal truth. This is on LinkedIn, I’m going to relate it very specifically to something that we promote here. And I think it’s made a huge difference. It’s the role of the team captain, I boil this into the role of the team captain. It’s one thing when you have a group of people that want to win for their paycheck, or they want to win for their leader, those are good. But when you have a team that wants to win for each other, when you want to win for each other, and things are going bad, and the people on the team, not the leaders, but the people on the team are holding each other accountable, keeping each other positive. Those are the best teams, the player led teams are the best teams truth for me.
Eric Watkins 02:23
I think it’s the truth as well. I think if you go look back, if you just take like sports, and you go look back at the great teams, you see a lot of coaches that will talk about how so and so star player was the leaders, they lead the team, Michael Jordan ran the team, right. Phil Jackson just made sure all the parts were moving. I think it’s a big deal. I think it creates buy in and you get more out of your team when they feel empowered to do that. Truth.
Scott Scully 02:46
Thank you for finding it. Yeah, thank
Eric Watkins 02:47
you for finding your truth. I know it’s tough.
Jeff Winters 02:50
Justin Clifford. Right. It’s going downhill quote. And I think he’s quoting somebody else but don’t matter. 99% of unhappy teammates slash workers could be made happy in their exact role if their manager had regular training and coaching 99% of unhappy teammates and workers can be made happy in their exact role if their manager had regular training and coaching. I think maybe not as universal but in my opinion, important and true. Because I think it’s very easier for managers to go not a right fit for the role. blame everything up not a right fit for the role bad hire HR didn’t find dude, Ba ba ba ba this and that, you know what do this pour into that person, poor in training, poor in coaching poor in growth and vision and where they’re going to be poor and given a shit, I bet it’s a whole lot more on you, as a manager, why that person’s unhappy than it is on them or HR. Don’t look at some other direction and point fingers outward. As a leader, you don’t it’s in your control, coach, pour into people care about them, train them, give them vision for the future, you’ll have a way happier team. And you’ll be able to turn unhappy team members who you think are not a good fit for the quote, role into top performers.
Eric Watkins 04:08
Someone could have done it. Someone could have done, some leader in the building outside of the building in the country in the world would have been on that team and got that person fired up to do the role.
Scott Scully 04:19
Always be growing. People want to be a part of something where they feel appreciated, acknowledged, know that they’re doing good work, and probably the most important thing that they’re always growing. They’re developing. They’re getting better, getting smarter. It’s a truth,
Jeff Winters 04:37
truth truths. And now I have a lie. I think it’s I think it’s spicy. Oh, yeah, spicy lie. And I think there’s going to be a lot of people on both sides of this. So you all should feel free. Sahil, who’s a frequent poster and a gets a lot of interaction and comments on LinkedIn. This particular guy says this influencer if you An influencer, if you are unable to get on the phone to close a customer or prevent one from turning, you shouldn’t be a CEO, I think is the line. And I’m gonna tell you why. And I’ll tell you where, where I would differ. You shouldn’t be a CEO, if you don’t have people on your team who are leaders who are capable of jumping on that call. But let me tell you some, there’s plenty of people who founded companies based based on their technical expertise, they are brilliant in some area, whether it be software, whether it be roof design, whether it be cars, whatever it is, like they are in the technical weeds. That is where their sphere of genius is. They don’t those people don’t need to be expected to get on a call and sell a customer or save a customer. Should they have the best people to fill in the gaps and their weaknesses on their team? Yes. But every CEO don’t need to be the same. There’s plenty of technical CEOs out there, I think this is a lie.
Scott Scully 05:53
During the season. Can Eric and I have one? Get Out of Jail Free card for somebody
Jeff Winters 06:00
you think every CEO should be able to close or save a customer?
Scott Scully 06:03
Well, so you know, you had just mentioned that there are plenty of people that may start an organization maybe based on technical ability, and they should have somebody else. And I agree, I just feel like that’s that entrepreneur at a certain level that gets booted and Mrs. or Mr. CEO comes in to take over. And if you were to look at most of the top successful CEOs, they actually came from sales. And if you don’t understand the mind of a customer, I don’t think that you can lead a year over year growth successful organization. So if I did have a get out of free card came out, like I’d say
Eric Watkins 06:44
he’ll I run free. Get him rotten free.
Jeff Winters 06:48
says you shouldn’t I mean, look this My point isn’t that like most can’t or shouldn’t? My point is like, every single CEO should not be fired. If they’re incapable of this. I don’t think so. But you do disagree that culture was spicy to get on with the customer and save them or sell them. You don’t think they should be able to do that? I think there are some CEOs that should not be fired that cannot save or sell a customer. I personally think okay,
Eric Watkins 07:15
naman, get out of here. Great Lie. That’s actually the truth. I think
Scott Scully 07:21
that you as the sheriff need just a deputy, you think you’re clearly now in need of a deputy, Eric,
Jeff Winters 07:27
go ahead. You think every CEO should be able to either sell or save a customer?
Eric Watkins 07:31
I think we’re overcomplicating selling or saving a customer. Just being the CEO and being able to get on a call and talk to a prospect and using your title. You’ll close deals. If they can’t get on the phone and communicate with somebody. Yeah, I’m a little worried about that. Not communicate you guys. Do they have to be the best sales rep in the building? No. Is that what he’s saying?
Jeff Winters 07:53
I don’t know. I’m gonna ask him. Okay, now that you guys are fanboying him?
Eric Watkins 07:57
I think he’s, he’s out of jail. And he’s got one more Get Out of Jail Free card if he ever comes back again. Oh, not a
Jeff Winters 08:06
lie. That’s an egregious lie. And I apologize on behalf of all the CEOs out there who are being resolute
Scott Scully 08:14
there. If there actually is one CEO out there that hasn’t talked to our customer. Can you please call Jeff? Tony’s one example. He needs one.
Jeff Winters 08:23
I think they’re I think they’re sabotaging me listeners. Don’t let him do a drop in the comments.
50 for 50
Scott Scully 00:00
Hey, what’s up, grow nation. Welcome back to the growth show. My name is Scott Scully. I’m here with Jeff winters and Eric Watkins. Welcome, gentlemen.
Jeff Winters 00:10
Welcome back, Eric.
Eric Watkins 00:11
Welcome back, Jeffrey, and welcome back. Scott, welcome
Scott Scully 00:14
back. Thank you. Thank you. We have some good stuff to go over today. And this show is all about making it just a little bit easier for you to grow, grow, show stories from the front lines, no textbook, no theory, actual things we’ve put into action that are helping us grow. And we just want to make a little easier on you in your path. So we love to start with a little section that Jeff calls two truths and a lie. Let’s get into it,
Jeff Winters 00:43
getting the positive feedback on this. As people keep liking the two truths and a lie from LinkedIn. I’m gratified by it. But it’s a lot of pressure. I gotta find this stuff. We got to talk about this stuff. I gotta go first. It’s not easy. All right.
Eric Watkins 01:01
How about all of your troops not being tourists the past couple of weeks? I think that’s good. I think that’s good. Yeah. Okay.
Scott Scully 01:09
Part of them. Part of them.
Eric Watkins 01:10
You’re arresting the wrong people. I guess that’s what I’m saying.
Jeff Winters 01:13
According to you, man. Oh, that’s good. I’m never gonna falsely accused falsely
Eric Watkins 01:18
accused on LinkedIn. falsework. Yeah, just you’re better, you’re safer just to not post on LinkedIn. If Jeff’s gonna be the sheriff.
Jeff Winters 01:27
Johnny, it’s a player led team will always be more successful than a coach led team. Once team members take maximum ownership over their own leadership, you have the making of a powerful team that will preserve, I find this to be a universal truth. This is on LinkedIn, I’m going to relate it very specifically to something that we promote here. And I think it’s made a huge difference. It’s the role of the team captain, I boil this into the role of the team captain. It’s one thing when you have a group of people that want to win for their paycheck, or they want to win for their leader, those are good. But when you have a team that wants to win for each other, when you want to win for each other, and things are going bad, and the people on the team, not the leaders, but the people on the team are holding each other accountable, keeping each other positive. Those are the best teams, the player led teams are the best teams truth for me.
Eric Watkins 02:23
I think it’s the truth as well. I think if you go look back, if you just take like sports, and you go look back at the great teams, you see a lot of coaches that will talk about how so and so star player was the leaders, they lead the team, Michael Jordan ran the team, right. Phil Jackson just made sure all the parts were moving. I think it’s a big deal. I think it creates buy in and you get more out of your team when they feel empowered to do that. Truth.
Scott Scully 02:46
Thank you for finding it. Yeah, thank
Eric Watkins 02:47
you for finding your truth. I know it’s tough.
Jeff Winters 02:50
Justin Clifford. Right. It’s going downhill quote. And I think he’s quoting somebody else but don’t matter. 99% of unhappy teammates slash workers could be made happy in their exact role if their manager had regular training and coaching 99% of unhappy teammates and workers can be made happy in their exact role if their manager had regular training and coaching. I think maybe not as universal but in my opinion, important and true. Because I think it’s very easier for managers to go not a right fit for the role. blame everything up not a right fit for the role bad hire HR didn’t find dude, Ba ba ba ba this and that, you know what do this pour into that person, poor in training, poor in coaching poor in growth and vision and where they’re going to be poor and given a shit, I bet it’s a whole lot more on you, as a manager, why that person’s unhappy than it is on them or HR. Don’t look at some other direction and point fingers outward. As a leader, you don’t it’s in your control, coach, pour into people care about them, train them, give them vision for the future, you’ll have a way happier team. And you’ll be able to turn unhappy team members who you think are not a good fit for the quote, role into top performers.
Eric Watkins 04:08
Someone could have done it. Someone could have done, some leader in the building outside of the building in the country in the world would have been on that team and got that person fired up to do the role.
Scott Scully 04:19
Always be growing. People want to be a part of something where they feel appreciated, acknowledged, know that they’re doing good work, and probably the most important thing that they’re always growing. They’re developing. They’re getting better, getting smarter. It’s a truth,
Jeff Winters 04:37
truth truths. And now I have a lie. I think it’s I think it’s spicy. Oh, yeah, spicy lie. And I think there’s going to be a lot of people on both sides of this. So you all should feel free. Sahil, who’s a frequent poster and a gets a lot of interaction and comments on LinkedIn. This particular guy says this influencer if you An influencer, if you are unable to get on the phone to close a customer or prevent one from turning, you shouldn’t be a CEO, I think is the line. And I’m gonna tell you why. And I’ll tell you where, where I would differ. You shouldn’t be a CEO, if you don’t have people on your team who are leaders who are capable of jumping on that call. But let me tell you some, there’s plenty of people who founded companies based based on their technical expertise, they are brilliant in some area, whether it be software, whether it be roof design, whether it be cars, whatever it is, like they are in the technical weeds. That is where their sphere of genius is. They don’t those people don’t need to be expected to get on a call and sell a customer or save a customer. Should they have the best people to fill in the gaps and their weaknesses on their team? Yes. But every CEO don’t need to be the same. There’s plenty of technical CEOs out there, I think this is a lie.
Scott Scully 05:53
During the season. Can Eric and I have one? Get Out of Jail Free card for somebody
Jeff Winters 06:00
you think every CEO should be able to close or save a customer?
Scott Scully 06:03
Well, so you know, you had just mentioned that there are plenty of people that may start an organization maybe based on technical ability, and they should have somebody else. And I agree, I just feel like that’s that entrepreneur at a certain level that gets booted and Mrs. or Mr. CEO comes in to take over. And if you were to look at most of the top successful CEOs, they actually came from sales. And if you don’t understand the mind of a customer, I don’t think that you can lead a year over year growth successful organization. So if I did have a get out of free card came out, like I’d say
Eric Watkins 06:44
he’ll I run free. Get him rotten free.
Jeff Winters 06:48
says you shouldn’t I mean, look this My point isn’t that like most can’t or shouldn’t? My point is like, every single CEO should not be fired. If they’re incapable of this. I don’t think so. But you do disagree that culture was spicy to get on with the customer and save them or sell them. You don’t think they should be able to do that? I think there are some CEOs that should not be fired that cannot save or sell a customer. I personally think okay,
Eric Watkins 07:15
naman, get out of here. Great Lie. That’s actually the truth. I think
Scott Scully 07:21
that you as the sheriff need just a deputy, you think you’re clearly now in need of a deputy, Eric,
Jeff Winters 07:27
go ahead. You think every CEO should be able to either sell or save a customer?
Eric Watkins 07:31
I think we’re overcomplicating selling or saving a customer. Just being the CEO and being able to get on a call and talk to a prospect and using your title. You’ll close deals. If they can’t get on the phone and communicate with somebody. Yeah, I’m a little worried about that. Not communicate you guys. Do they have to be the best sales rep in the building? No. Is that what he’s saying?
Jeff Winters 07:53
I don’t know. I’m gonna ask him. Okay, now that you guys are fanboying him?
Eric Watkins 07:57
I think he’s, he’s out of jail. And he’s got one more Get Out of Jail Free card if he ever comes back again. Oh, not a
Jeff Winters 08:06
lie. That’s an egregious lie. And I apologize on behalf of all the CEOs out there who are being resolute
Scott Scully 08:14
there. If there actually is one CEO out there that hasn’t talked to our customer. Can you please call Jeff? Tony’s one example. He needs one.
Jeff Winters 08:23
I think they’re I think they’re sabotaging me listeners. Don’t let him do a drop in the comments.
Mining for Growth Gold
Scott Scully 00:00
Hey, what’s up, grow nation. Welcome back to the growth show. My name is Scott Scully. I’m here with Jeff winters and Eric Watkins. Welcome, gentlemen.
Jeff Winters 00:10
Welcome back, Eric.
Eric Watkins 00:11
Welcome back, Jeffrey, and welcome back. Scott, welcome
Scott Scully 00:14
back. Thank you. Thank you. We have some good stuff to go over today. And this show is all about making it just a little bit easier for you to grow, grow, show stories from the front lines, no textbook, no theory, actual things we’ve put into action that are helping us grow. And we just want to make a little easier on you in your path. So we love to start with a little section that Jeff calls two truths and a lie. Let’s get into it,
Jeff Winters 00:43
getting the positive feedback on this. As people keep liking the two truths and a lie from LinkedIn. I’m gratified by it. But it’s a lot of pressure. I gotta find this stuff. We got to talk about this stuff. I gotta go first. It’s not easy. All right.
Eric Watkins 01:01
How about all of your troops not being tourists the past couple of weeks? I think that’s good. I think that’s good. Yeah. Okay.
Scott Scully 01:09
Part of them. Part of them.
Eric Watkins 01:10
You’re arresting the wrong people. I guess that’s what I’m saying.
Jeff Winters 01:13
According to you, man. Oh, that’s good. I’m never gonna falsely accused falsely
Eric Watkins 01:18
accused on LinkedIn. falsework. Yeah, just you’re better, you’re safer just to not post on LinkedIn. If Jeff’s gonna be the sheriff.
Jeff Winters 01:27
Johnny, it’s a player led team will always be more successful than a coach led team. Once team members take maximum ownership over their own leadership, you have the making of a powerful team that will preserve, I find this to be a universal truth. This is on LinkedIn, I’m going to relate it very specifically to something that we promote here. And I think it’s made a huge difference. It’s the role of the team captain, I boil this into the role of the team captain. It’s one thing when you have a group of people that want to win for their paycheck, or they want to win for their leader, those are good. But when you have a team that wants to win for each other, when you want to win for each other, and things are going bad, and the people on the team, not the leaders, but the people on the team are holding each other accountable, keeping each other positive. Those are the best teams, the player led teams are the best teams truth for me.
Eric Watkins 02:23
I think it’s the truth as well. I think if you go look back, if you just take like sports, and you go look back at the great teams, you see a lot of coaches that will talk about how so and so star player was the leaders, they lead the team, Michael Jordan ran the team, right. Phil Jackson just made sure all the parts were moving. I think it’s a big deal. I think it creates buy in and you get more out of your team when they feel empowered to do that. Truth.
Scott Scully 02:46
Thank you for finding it. Yeah, thank
Eric Watkins 02:47
you for finding your truth. I know it’s tough.
Jeff Winters 02:50
Justin Clifford. Right. It’s going downhill quote. And I think he’s quoting somebody else but don’t matter. 99% of unhappy teammates slash workers could be made happy in their exact role if their manager had regular training and coaching 99% of unhappy teammates and workers can be made happy in their exact role if their manager had regular training and coaching. I think maybe not as universal but in my opinion, important and true. Because I think it’s very easier for managers to go not a right fit for the role. blame everything up not a right fit for the role bad hire HR didn’t find dude, Ba ba ba ba this and that, you know what do this pour into that person, poor in training, poor in coaching poor in growth and vision and where they’re going to be poor and given a shit, I bet it’s a whole lot more on you, as a manager, why that person’s unhappy than it is on them or HR. Don’t look at some other direction and point fingers outward. As a leader, you don’t it’s in your control, coach, pour into people care about them, train them, give them vision for the future, you’ll have a way happier team. And you’ll be able to turn unhappy team members who you think are not a good fit for the quote, role into top performers.
Eric Watkins 04:08
Someone could have done it. Someone could have done, some leader in the building outside of the building in the country in the world would have been on that team and got that person fired up to do the role.
Scott Scully 04:19
Always be growing. People want to be a part of something where they feel appreciated, acknowledged, know that they’re doing good work, and probably the most important thing that they’re always growing. They’re developing. They’re getting better, getting smarter. It’s a truth,
Jeff Winters 04:37
truth truths. And now I have a lie. I think it’s I think it’s spicy. Oh, yeah, spicy lie. And I think there’s going to be a lot of people on both sides of this. So you all should feel free. Sahil, who’s a frequent poster and a gets a lot of interaction and comments on LinkedIn. This particular guy says this influencer if you An influencer, if you are unable to get on the phone to close a customer or prevent one from turning, you shouldn’t be a CEO, I think is the line. And I’m gonna tell you why. And I’ll tell you where, where I would differ. You shouldn’t be a CEO, if you don’t have people on your team who are leaders who are capable of jumping on that call. But let me tell you some, there’s plenty of people who founded companies based based on their technical expertise, they are brilliant in some area, whether it be software, whether it be roof design, whether it be cars, whatever it is, like they are in the technical weeds. That is where their sphere of genius is. They don’t those people don’t need to be expected to get on a call and sell a customer or save a customer. Should they have the best people to fill in the gaps and their weaknesses on their team? Yes. But every CEO don’t need to be the same. There’s plenty of technical CEOs out there, I think this is a lie.
Scott Scully 05:53
During the season. Can Eric and I have one? Get Out of Jail Free card for somebody
Jeff Winters 06:00
you think every CEO should be able to close or save a customer?
Scott Scully 06:03
Well, so you know, you had just mentioned that there are plenty of people that may start an organization maybe based on technical ability, and they should have somebody else. And I agree, I just feel like that’s that entrepreneur at a certain level that gets booted and Mrs. or Mr. CEO comes in to take over. And if you were to look at most of the top successful CEOs, they actually came from sales. And if you don’t understand the mind of a customer, I don’t think that you can lead a year over year growth successful organization. So if I did have a get out of free card came out, like I’d say
Eric Watkins 06:44
he’ll I run free. Get him rotten free.
Jeff Winters 06:48
says you shouldn’t I mean, look this My point isn’t that like most can’t or shouldn’t? My point is like, every single CEO should not be fired. If they’re incapable of this. I don’t think so. But you do disagree that culture was spicy to get on with the customer and save them or sell them. You don’t think they should be able to do that? I think there are some CEOs that should not be fired that cannot save or sell a customer. I personally think okay,
Eric Watkins 07:15
naman, get out of here. Great Lie. That’s actually the truth. I think
Scott Scully 07:21
that you as the sheriff need just a deputy, you think you’re clearly now in need of a deputy, Eric,
Jeff Winters 07:27
go ahead. You think every CEO should be able to either sell or save a customer?
Eric Watkins 07:31
I think we’re overcomplicating selling or saving a customer. Just being the CEO and being able to get on a call and talk to a prospect and using your title. You’ll close deals. If they can’t get on the phone and communicate with somebody. Yeah, I’m a little worried about that. Not communicate you guys. Do they have to be the best sales rep in the building? No. Is that what he’s saying?
Jeff Winters 07:53
I don’t know. I’m gonna ask him. Okay, now that you guys are fanboying him?
Eric Watkins 07:57
I think he’s, he’s out of jail. And he’s got one more Get Out of Jail Free card if he ever comes back again. Oh, not a
Jeff Winters 08:06
lie. That’s an egregious lie. And I apologize on behalf of all the CEOs out there who are being resolute
Scott Scully 08:14
there. If there actually is one CEO out there that hasn’t talked to our customer. Can you please call Jeff? Tony’s one example. He needs one.
Jeff Winters 08:23
I think they’re I think they’re sabotaging me listeners. Don’t let him do a drop in the comments.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 20:24
Sorry, they’re not with that, you know, what are we going to do are sitting on 100,000 appointments, how we’re going to turn those into sales. Jeffrey,
Jeff Winters 21:03
one thing, you know, one thing we’re gonna do, Scott, and Eric, on our sales calls, is we’re going to stop waiting to talk as a sales rep. And we’re going to start listening for the express purpose of being able to dig into areas that are going to be really important for the potential future that sale. Here’s what I hear on lots of sales calls, it’s prescribed, you know, the salesperson is so ready to talk, in the beginning of the call, they ask a few questions, just to get information, not a dialogue, just give me the information I need. Great, now I’m going to tell you all about our stuff. And then we’re going to have a little q&a and pricing. And along the way, there’s little, there’s little clues, there’s little little tracks that you need to follow, or that you could follow to make closing a deal more likely. For instance, I was listening to a great call the other day. And, you know, the prospect was talking to the prospect said, Yeah, you know, we used to work with another company in your, in your industry, we don’t anymore, and now we’re moving on. And the sales rep had the good sense to go with Oh, interesting, tell me how’d that go? Oh, it didn’t go well at all. And that sparked the whole conversation. And and had that that question not been asked had that sales rep not been listening and dug deep? What would have happened was, that would have been a very pleasant call, it would have gone nicely, and that person would have gotten off, and they would have had to have their own internal dialogue and discussion about is this company us different from the other experience that I had? And if so why? And if not, why not. And that had never been addressed on that call. And it was only addressed. Because that sales rep had the good sense to listen to dig in, don’t miss your opportunity to dig in to important topics that will have an outsized effect on whether or not a deal closes, know where they are, train on them. Listen for these areas with your team. And as a sales rep. Don’t wait to talk. Listen, listen, listen,
Eric Watkins 23:06
I think that’s great. Scott, you’ve always trained me on this in the these sales calls should not be this smooth presentation. These should be choppy. And part of what makes them choppy is you actually listening to what the prospects saying? And asking questions and bringing those objections out. Within the call, easiest way to do this, in my opinion. Repeat the last couple words that they just said and ask them in a question. You use another company before. I mean, it’s just the the easiest way to do it. And that’s an easy way to train reps who struggle with active listening. Obviously, at the sales level, you should be a little bit more advanced, but definitely something in prospecting.
Scott Scully 23:49
I believe in this. And that’s why when we design our decks, I like coming up with, you know, a thought provoking question or two per slide, you know, asking those questions and then getting the prospect talking. And then so by the end, the clothes should be that much easier, because you should have exactly what you need. We’re not saying a new thing, but I don’t think it’s practiced enough. Like, talk less, listen more, and they’ll give you exactly what you need to close.
Jeff Winters 24:20
Yeah. And like they’re giving you prospects are giving you bullshit surface level answers. And by the way, account managers to like this is fair for you to know, like you’re getting surface level bullshit answers, and all you got to do is figure out the right time to ask the right question. Yeah, no, I love your services. It’s awesome. You know, I’m having the best time. Oh, that’s interesting, because I’m hearing a little tinge in your voice or maybe, I don’t know, maybe I’m misreading, but are you saying like, you’d be a customer like, forever? Like 100% Sign up for a lifetime deal? Well, no. Okay. Well, what’s the difference between that situation and the situation right now? It’s like, you gotta you gotta have that that sixth sense to dig and the best sales reps always do
Scott Scully 25:00
I agree more gold, Jeff. Thanks,
To Do or Not To Do
Jeff Winters 25:02
Eric. Ready? Is it? Anything Scott and I have said this entire episode. No, it’s been great.
Scott Scully 25:07
He literally is just the whole time doing exactly what you’re saying. He’s
Eric Watkins 25:12
just thinking about don’t act like this isn’t your favorite part of the he’s thinking
Scott Scully 25:16
about talking about to do or not?
Eric Watkins 25:19
To do or not to do? This is more of a question. What is the acceptable number of days that you can wear? Jeans and or pants, Jeff, because I know you don’t ever wear jeans. Without Washington. What is the acceptable number of days?
Scott Scully 25:40
So are you wearing them day after day? Or are you saying
Eric Watkins 25:45
no, no, no, but no back to backs? Like no, you shouldn’t be doing back to backs, but you wear them? hang them up?
Scott Scully 25:53
I’ve got two answers. Let’s hear one I’m going to poke fun at myself and expose that on Tuesdays someone does do my laundry. But if they didn’t, I don’t know three or four, three or four times five times kind of depends too on what where you went? Yeah, what you’re doing smoky bar. You know what what happened? But you shouldn’t wear him once and wash him smoky. Actually not good
Jeff Winters 26:22
at night. Or no fucking smoky bars. Smoky bars are gone. Scott, are you been? Get out.
Scott Scully 26:28
I have comments. Smoky bar you don’t even remember a smoky bar.
Jeff Winters 26:36
It’s like federally illegal Yeah. Scott’s like, you know, it was a great basketball player now Scottie Pippen guys amazing.
Scott Scully 26:46
Including vapes.
Eric Watkins 26:48
faves is well
Jeff Winters 26:51
All right, first of all, I find jeans reprehensible I think they’re disgusting. Despicable. I will wear em I hate why it’s terrible. Get to the root of it. Why awful? It never fits the exam. You’d go try them on a store they go they go these fit incredible I get home they’re four sizes too big. What is going on? And don’t go well you don’t have the right denim bullshit. I’ve tried it with every piece of debt I’m gonna buy you a pair of jeans I gotta go tear plastic they do not fit me I don’t have a jeans body that’s just who I am doesn’t work I don’t think I’ve ever heard that didn’t work for me the jeans industry left me behind and you know what there’s plenty of my fans in my particular for my fans but too big. No eyes. It’s just a different shape. That’s number one. Number two is this thing I’ve ever heard I’m on a back to back with these pants. I don’t think if you get dirty I’ll go months months without washing pants why there’s no that is a lie. I swear to god it’s I want to back to back when I wear the same pair of pants back to back days every week at least once without washing. Does that race is
Eric Watkins 27:50
what I was what I was worried about no that’s why we got to we got to talk about the important topics for listeners because they need to know you don’t wear pants
Jeff Winters 27:57
back to back
Scott Scully 27:57
you I could wear jeans a couple of days in a row
Eric Watkins 28:01
I might actually never wear the top yeah
Jeff Winters 28:04
I’m on a back to back right now to the same back the same top is a whole different Yeah,
Eric Watkins 28:07
no no, no top no same top. Back to backs are fun. But back to back to back. Three days is a little heavy. That’s a little heavier in a month. That’s too much. Don’t think so a month to get 30 Something has happened in that month. You got a little dirty. You should have washed him at one point in a month.
Jeff Winters 28:31
Not running through the mud. Not going to smoky bars.
Scott Scully 28:35
We hope that you got something out of the episode. We apologize as always for you know, our last section. We are really enjoying the process of reviewing some of these things that have worked for us. We hope you’re feeling the same way. If you have any feedback. Is there anything that you want us to dig into a little deeper please let us know. We hope you are out there grinding growing. As always let’s grow
Eric Watkins 29:02
let’s grow let’s grow.
When people feel like they belong, they are more motivated and productive. Offering your team members branded gear is a powerful tool for fostering a sense of pride and team spirit among your employees. It also helps create conversations that can attract new customers and team members. Just think about how serious your high school football coach was about having the team in uniform or the military’s commitment to being in uniform. It matters!
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to the gross show. I’m here with my partners in crime, Eric Watkins and Jeff Weiner. Are you guys doing today?
Eric Watkins 00:09
Hello, hello, welcome back.
Scott Scully 00:11
I am fired up about today and our content. But before we get into it, Jeff, we stirred it up a little bit out there in the lake or in your pasture.
Jeff Winters 00:21
We haven’t talked about it. We haven’t talked about it. But Scott’s post has stirred some emotions.
Scott Scully 00:31
People are not happy
Jeff Winters 00:35
on another podcast in some other galaxy, where they’re also doing two truths and a lie. This is like the your post about I wouldn’t be blinded by our skin. Well, no, it’s, it’s 50%. Not even 50%. Like 75% of the comments are truth. And that people are lining up to say truth, and some that are saying, lie. And there’s some back and forth. We’ve struck a chord, if you will,
Scott Scully 01:01
I am now have the worst post on LinkedIn that this person has ever seen. But more good news, Jeff has the best, Jeff has the best the best. So we’re celebrating being at that both ends
Jeff Winters 01:16
today. And I should, in fairness, have what someone said was the best post of 2023 on LinkedIn because I am indeed the sheriff, the sheriff, so if I don’t know what people want, who does this week, one of this week’s truths comes from David Greenfeld, and he’s he’s quoting someone else, but I love this quote, genius, is persistence in disguise. Genius is persistence deep at deep, it’s deep. But if you think about it, I think there’s a lot of people out there who think that great ideas, great inventions, incredible accomplishments and achievements happen in the blink of an eye or in a flash. And really, when you talk to those people, you’d realize, no, that’s not what happened. It was just incredible amounts of persistence and iteration iteration and persistence. And I just thought that was a really cool, quote, genius is just persistence, persistence in disguise.
Scott Scully 02:16
And Gordon truth was, Benjamin Franklin had a kazillion inventions, right. Tons of failures before success. Yeah, persistence, for sure. I’m truth all the way.
Eric Watkins 02:30
Yeah, I’m actually reading a book right now about Thomas Edison. And like, coming up with the light bulb and going through that process. And so from the outside looking in, you’re like, This guy’s a genius. But, you know, he just slept, I think it was three hours a night, and continuously worked at that craft. Truth.
Jeff Winters 02:51
Truth Number two, it’s a little longer. That was short. So I’m gonna make this a little longer. So it turns out. I’m actually an in office guy. This is from a friend Scott Barker. So it turns out, I’m actually an office guy. There’s time and place for remote work. I’ll probably work from home one day a week, but nothing can replace in person collaboration. I saw a tweet that solidified it for me. And the premise was, would you want your competition to be in office? Or remote? Oh,
Scott Scully 03:26
that’s an amazing way to put it.
Eric Watkins 03:28
It is a great way to put it. Never thought about it like that.
Jeff Winters 03:33
Would you want you Well, what do you want? Scott, you want our competition to be in office or remote?
Scott Scully 03:37
I want them to be so far away from each other that it’s hard to communicate.
Eric Watkins 03:43
different continents, different
Scott Scully 03:44
continents. That is a great way to put it.
Jeff Winters 03:47
Isn’t that so smart?
Scott Scully 03:49
I love it. So truth. You would never say that you wanted your competition to be
Eric Watkins 03:55
all collaborating working together? Yeah.
Jeff Winters 03:57
No, of course not. And a light hearted light, but I think maybe underneath the surface, the less light heart.
Eric Watkins 04:05
Can we congratulate you first for actually picking something we agreed was? Yeah, this is good.
Scott Scully 04:09
You actually had nice work to live to truth, no false arrests.
Eric Watkins 04:13
No false or no false arrest today. We’re feeling
Jeff Winters 04:15
good. It’s okay to have some disagree. unpopular opinion. Sunday. scaries are just a part of life. No matter how much you love or hate your job. You’re always going to feel some type of way on Sunday. I think this is a lie. And I also don’t like it. I’ve always had a visceral reaction when people are like, how are you doing? Like four days from Friday? Thursday, how are you feeling good. Friday is just around the corner. Sunday I get anxious. I’m scared. I’m nervous. I’m this and I gotta go to work. And it’s like, I don’t I don’t think that’s true for everyone. It’s not true for me. It’s not true for me. And that’s a really important part of my life is I’ve made the decision to not be anxious on Sunday night. Because I have to go to work in the morning and do Something that I either hate or I’m not like, you can combat that man. But you guys have strategies for what you do to make sure you’re feeling good going into the week. But don’t let yourself live your entire life 52 weeks a year with one day a week feeling like shit about what you gotta go do the next day. That’s terrible. I don’t think that’s true. It’s a
Scott Scully 05:17
lie. He did say you always feel that you can feel a certain way. Right? So I’m not on a Sunday thinking, I’m miserable about going to work. But I will say I hate planned things on Sundays, like Sunday afternoon, Sunday evenings because I want a little downtime before going into the week. So I do feel like Sunday for me, especially the second part of Sunday is a day of rest. And if something gets in the way of that it kind of aggravates me. So I do feel something on Sunday, but definitely not. I’m not looking forward to the week
Jeff Winters 05:53
you don’t do so you don’t do activities on Sunday night. I hate it.
Eric Watkins 05:57
I hate it on the same way.
Jeff Winters 05:58
I am, too. I’m so happy. I didn’t we never knew this.
Eric Watkins 06:01
Although I did. I do play basketball Sunday nights. And that’s the perfect the perfect thing to do before the week. Like in regard to I think a lot of this has to do with how you choose to live your weekend as well. We’ve been doing this 75 hard. So we’ve gone What 50 Something days without drinking. And it’s it’s completely different. No, not that I was drinking a ton. But I think a lot of these people that have Sunday’s Sunday scaries are doing it to themselves. Yeah, they’re going out there having eight cocktails on Saturday. And I’m not saying don’t enjoy yourself. Don’t you know, live your life, by all means. But part of that plays into why you’re so anxious and scared for Monday. Because you gotta go from what you just did to your body to you know, I gotta be awake, alert and running. And there’s something about not drinking that I feel like gives you a little bit of an edge over everybody else or exercising.
Jeff Winters 06:56
Or what Scott, whatever you’re doing, like restful, meditative, meditative.
Eric Watkins 07:03
Okay, Scott meditates for three hours every Sunday. You didn’t know that.
Jeff Winters 07:08
I’m glad I got two truths and a lie. It’s a lie. All right.
50 for 50
Scott Scully 07:12
Thank you, Jeff. We are now headed to the 50 for 50. What is the 50 for 50. You may ask, that is our 50 most important business growth strategies, the things that we have tested, that we feel like you should set up immediately to ensure predictable growth. And today, we got another good one. It’s branded gear, one of my favorites. And I think most of the time when people think branded gear, they think about it as handouts, as a marketing tool, to get you know, to give to prospects or to show your customers that you love them, and that you appreciate them. And by all means, those things are important. But I’m talking about getting your army in uniform. It’s something that we do. And God what a way to make you feel like you’re on a team, that there are so many studies that say that people feel like they belong. They actually feel more motivated, proud of the organization that we’re working with. They feel like they’re closer to the to the team. There’s just, I could go on and on and on about this, you know, we have a store here. And you can go and we and we’ve spent a lot of time thinking about the items that we have within the store. And most days when you walk around, I’d say 60% have this branded gear on. And yet people are out there thinking well, I’m just not going to be a better organization if I’ve got my logo on sweatshirts or zip ups and why is that going to impact my growth and then I would point to teams like Oregon, that used to have a hard time getting people to go join that team and all of a sudden, you know, their affiliation with with Nike turned into these new beautiful uniforms. And oh my god, like all the kids coming up talk about Oregon. Like when I was growing up, people didn’t talk about the Oregon football team or the Oregon basketball team. Everybody talks about Oregon and what they’re going to wear next and they’re fired up and then the crowds like in it because they’re all in their gear and it just matters I think back in in high school football and how serious our coach was about our uniform. I think about the military and how serious they are about being in uniform and showing different levels and it’s just huge. Your business will be more productive and will grow Bro at a higher rate, if your army is like in gear in branded gear, live in the brand, what do you guys think about that probably sounds crazy.
Eric Watkins 10:12
You know, it probably does, but it doesn’t, since we’ve lived in it for so long if you go walk around, like we have, like Scott said, we have a store, like we have a huge store with tons of different items. And you walk around this building, and you see people in all different colors and types of swag. And we call it abstract swag. So there’s so many advantages for the business. For the everybody being a part of a team, I’m going to talk about one selfish one, as an employee who wears a lot of swag. For mornings out of five, I don’t have to think about what I’m wearing. All I have to think about is what color pullover I’m wearing for the day. And, and on top of that they look nice, they look professional. It’s just, you know, there’s so much we do in our lives and choices we have to make, why not, you know, it just helps your employees not have to worry about what just something as small as what they’re going to wear today,
Jeff Winters 11:12
I’m gonna go more specific. So I want to give people some insight into what we’re saying buy gear, so we’ve got plenty of stuff that’s got the abstract logo on it. That stuff’s awesome, and definitely falls into this category. But then we’ve got this other section of gear that has really important initiatives, either emblazoned on it or the catchphrases on the hat. And it’s things that we’re working toward. I’m looking at Scott right now. He’s got a sweatshirt on. This is one team one dream, that was the that was the mantra for last year, when we were bringing people together, we’ve got one this year behind growing grind. And I’ve heard this in other organizations too. If you have an initiative ongoing, part of your job as a leader is to make sure that that initiative is always in the conscious of people who are working toward those goals. A lot of that’s verbal, some of that’s written, but you know what, I love walking around with a T shirt that has my goal on it. So everybody just gets a little reminder throughout. Oh, yeah, you know, just maybe I don’t see it five out of six times I see in a day. But one It caught me today. I was like, yeah, one team one dream. Let me let me think about that for a second
Scott Scully 12:22
I spot on Jeff, that’s, that’s one of the more important ones is the ability through gear to be able to get that annual mission across or could be your mission in general or problem you solve.
Eric Watkins 12:37
The other part of this. I don’t even think we’ve mentioned it yet, is when you have an organization like ourselves primarily focused in St. Louis, and so many employees. This is marketing for us. They’re walking around, they’re leaving work, they’re going to happy hour, whatever it may be, they’re wearing this nice look and swag or that logo and people ask them, hey, where do you work? What do you know about what do you like about it? And that’s how we get a lot of employees. Like it’s, it’s hard to find good employees in this day and age. That’s one other way to do it.
Scott Scully 13:08
It’s a great way to show tenure, like when people are walking around with some of the old school, right opposite around just kind of puts you in the Oh, those are the 12 plus year people or those are the five year people to kind of cool that side benefits. Kind of cool, too. Can have
Jeff Winters 13:28
shitty stuff though.
Eric Watkins 13:29
Yeah, some people should throw away some of
Jeff Winters 13:30
that. No, no, no, not that stuff I’m talking about. I’m talking about the gear. Here’s really good. Yeah, like it’s to the point where I’m out with my friends. And they’re like, let me get one of those. Let me get one of those. And you know me, I’m a good friend. So I gave him the address, no discount they can buy.
Scott Scully 13:47
You will be surprised at how many of your team members will want to wear the gear because they believe in what you do. They they’re proud of where they work. And they want to show people where they work and talk about what they’re doing. And this is an incredible way when they’re out at a restaurant. People ask them questions. And it’s a way for them to celebrate what they do and attract talent, like we said before, so people will be more productive. You will drive even greater results by making sure that your people are in your gear and you guys are one team live in one dream. We are now headed to mining for growth gold
Mining for Growth Gold
Eric Watkins 14:29
mining for growth gold. Okay, today. We have the golden question. What an eight, the golden question. It’s been around for a while here at abstract and I talked, you know a couple episodes ago about not over qualifying leads. So I felt it only right to come back and talk about how to make leads just a little bit better for yourselves if you’re doing this internally or for your partners, if you’re working for other companies. So this is simple. You go into the appointment called Once you set the appointment at the end of the appointment call, you ask this question, Jeff, if you see value in what we provide, and ultimately decide to move forward with our services, what does that decision making process look like? Period Shut up. We’re asking for the decision making process. If the hypothetical if they were to move forward with our services, this seems really small. And the first things that come to mind are wow, is really invasive. And I bet a lot of people aren’t going to want to answer that question. And I’ll just tell you, that’s wrong. We ask it all the time. They answer, they just come out strictly and answer. Number two, this is the number one mistake that salespeople make is not knowing the decision making process going into the sale, there’s a lot of mistakes, but that’s one of the biggest ones, because you have to know where you’re trying to get to before you even get started. So it’s one little piece of information that we can load up for our salespeople understanding that decision making process. So I’ll give you an example. I asked that. And then Jeff says, you know, I, you know, pretty much I make the decision on who we partner with here, but I have to run it up the ladder to Scott, to make sure that he agrees with it, that little line from that appointment call. Now, when I hand this lead over to the sales rep, they can a reach out to Scott on LinkedIn and try to make a connection prior to the call. And be they know in that call. My goal now is not just to sell Jeff, I have to sell Jeff in a way where he’s going to advocate to Scott and I’m going to get Scott’s attention to get this dealer. Golden question, simple thing at the end of every appointment call,
Jeff Winters 16:39
this is a huge advantage for the salesperson, because the more questions that you can get before the call. So you don’t have to spend time figuring this stuff out. And you can, whether it’s more time on price, or term or prison or presenting or discussing the problem that prospect has, the better off you are, but you are so much better off. And just to add Eric, you know, by the way, maybe instead of me connecting with Scott on LinkedIn, if I’m the salesperson, maybe I go to my boss and that my boss reached out to Scott and go, Hey, you know, I know Jeff from our team is meeting with Steve from your team. Just wanted to let you know, we’re really energized about the potential partnership. And I’d like to make sure that you had me you want to put a face with a company and you had me on the radar case, things move forward. There’s so many different things you can do proactively. If I know that the appointments you’ve talked about before the amount of information you can glean after the appointment is set just from asking five or six questions that no one will ever remember. Like it’s not going to go bad. Put your sales team at a big competitive advantage.
Scott Scully 17:43
Eric, I love it. And I don’t think it’s just a tip. I think it should be almost mandatory that with every set appointment for a future business opportunity that you know what the decision making processes and who influences because you’re gonna prep in a whole different way, like Jeff’s really good example. Right, right there of two higher ups connecting to support what’s about ready to happen, I love it. And if I was out there listening, I would implement a sap that question and say it’s not even a qualified appointment, unless they’re bringing forth that information. So that sales rep can be prepared.
Eric Watkins 18:27
Love it and know, very, very rarely does somebody push back on us. Oh, why don’t want to tell you that? I don’t want to give you that information. I mean, very, very rarely. But that is the golden question. We were mining for growth gold. And what we find we found the golden question. Gold for sure. Lot of gold. Gold. so magical.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 18:50
So now that we’re sitting on a pot of gold, how are you gonna spend?
Jeff Winters 18:58
You know, there’s always room for one more holiday in the calendar isn’t there? There’s never enough holidays. Fourth of July. Memorial Day, New Year’s Day, I could go on. I want to add another one to your calendar. No. I want to add another 12 holidays to your calendar 1212 New holidays. You’re welcome. For you salespeople, you founders, you leaders and those holidays are what we call el DOM. Yes, el DOM. The stay with me now last month. Yes. El DOM needs to be a holiday. I want to change the way you think about the last day of the month. Because I’ll tell you a change for us. This came to us from my brother Tony Hawk, amazing member of our sales team. We love you. He came to us and we’re the last day of the month we come in and just like any other day, just like any other day, you know, we’re gonna close some deals. We’re gonna have some lunch. And he said this is true. arable. This is a joke. Where’s the music? Where’s the themes? Where’s the energy? Where’s the hourly contest, this needs to be a holiday. And if you bring the energy up to a fever pitch, you will close materially exponentially more deals. And so we did. And every last day of the month became a holiday. What does that mean? We had themes, we had meals, everybody dresses up, we have contests. Every hour, we have something we’ll do after work, we have all sorts of things on El DOM, and the magic happens. And you look around and deals start to close, you go, Oh, this is kind of interesting. Deals are close. And then they start and more and more and more, and people are high fiving. And they’re jumping up in the air. And it is a it’s a day unlike any other. And the Masters it’s it’s the masters. If you don’t have this in your company, by the way, this doesn’t just have to be sales. It can be sales, development, it can be marketing, it can be fulfillment, and delivery can be operations can be account management, implemented Elden. Make it a holiday, make it a huge deal, have a big board, have contests have food, it’s a blast, your results will go up a ton. And it’s easy to implement. Nobody’s against el DOM. Everybody loves holidays. I just gave you 12 more.
Scott Scully 21:15
You’re making it fun. People fear the last day of the month, and a lot of times going into that day, maybe a little behind thinking how am I ever going to get this done. And when you’re putting somebody’s mind right at the beginning of that last day of the month, you end up pulling it out as a team. I love it. Thank you, Tony, Tony.
Eric Watkins 21:36
Yeah, that’s great. I remember when you guys first came in, and we’re saying L DOM were like LDAP LDAP. What’s LDAP it was like this big deal. And we did something for the last day of the month, but just putting the name to it. Like just use the name. The name matters. The name matters. You
Scott Scully 21:49
want it to mean something you got to name it got a name, maybe even build a logo. Feel it
Eric Watkins 21:53
use it. It’s just it’s awesome. We took it right away.
Jeff Winters 21:57
Oh, it’s amazing. Now you got as you should and now it’s my wife knows my kids know my brother. You know how we look for elder cousin? About el Dom, but it does now
Scott Scully 22:07
and you know what we need to do what? We need to put some l DOM sweatshirts in the store.
Eric Watkins 22:13
A full circle circles o circle, sir.
Scott Scully 22:17
Jeff, you’re on fire today.
Eric Watkins 22:19
You are great episode.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 22:21
You’re feeling good? Yes. Well, we’re there. Everybody’s most favorite section of the crow show. To do or not to
Jeff Winters 22:30
to this off yet. We didn’t kill this off. Now.
Eric Watkins 22:32
This is back with a vengeance. All right, we’re talking about Scott and I have a little basketball game after work. And we’re trying to get Jeff to join us we’re gonna go to some employees here internally put together a little pickup game. So we’re going to a nearby rec center. And we’re gonna play a little basketball. My question is, you know, I’m 32 now I’m coming on 33 I’m waking up, my knees are cracking, you know, my ankles a little tight. My back’s hurt. And I can only imagine, I can only imagine how it’s gonna look. As I keep getting older. Should you?
Jeff Winters 23:10
I thought he was gonna see. If you were if you were 53.
Eric Watkins 23:15
If I was Scott’s
Jeff Winters 23:18
a if I was just a throw some dirt on him. Why don’t you?
Eric Watkins 23:22
Here’s my question, though. It is risky. You hear of the people, they’re tearing their Achilles they tear their ACL they break their whatever they you know, throw off your summer, whatever it may be. Is it worth it? To play real sports after the age of 30? Or not? Should you keep playing basketball? Should You Play that Thanksgiving football game? Or do you stick to golf? Do you stick to pickleball?
Scott Scully 23:48
It is painful, though. My knee already hurts. We are not even there. That’s a great question. Depends on just how competitive you are and what that does for you. I think you have to be doing some level of you can’t do zero activity and then go out not having exercise for three years and then play a game of full court pick up basketball. So you definitely got to be prepared for it. Don’t don’t just decide that you want to go back to your high school and play in the alumni football game if you haven’t played football for 20 years but if you’re a competitive sports person that works out stays in shape and that drives you I’d say go for it.
Jeff Winters 24:31
Yeah, no I’m a I’m a give up guy on this one. Like you just it is like it’s over like your time has passed it necessarily 30 But whatever age it is for you like you got just got to cut it off. And you’ll know when that is because you start getting you said it’s like knee cracked but like I’ve talked to talk to my buddies 38 years old now yeah, I’m I can’t get to work because I pop my patella. Come on, man. You can’t be popular and you got work. Do you have family? You can’t be screw up your patella
Eric Watkins 25:02
sounds like a dance move. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, that’s
Jeff Winters 25:04
over. I think I think that’s when you go to I think that’s why pickleball was invented pickleball was invented as a transition for young people to you know, play a sport and feel like they’re still competing and actually not be very body. That’s why That’s what pickleball network Pickleball is. Pickleball means and French is like transition.
Scott Scully 25:27
I sweat more from ping pong. Pickleball that’s
Jeff Winters 25:30
why people feel like with pickleball people like great exercise and I’m competing. Yeah, not really, but whatever, who cares? Like if you feel good?
Eric Watkins 25:38
I think you should I actually think you should give it I’m not going to I’m going to still stick through it but I think it’s dumb. Like I think I’m gonna come in and like in crutches one day,
Jeff Winters 25:48
right? What are you gonna pick up?
Eric Watkins 25:50
No, I’m gonna I’m gonna keep going I’m gonna fight through it and yeah, but you’re 30
Jeff Winters 25:53
like you’re you’re a couple years you don’t know this
Scott Scully 25:56
you guys are sending me a message without looking at me directly. This is sad. I
Jeff Winters 26:00
already got a fucking ambulance for you later. I got it. I’m gonna have it outside.
Eric Watkins 26:04
The funny thing is Scott is in the best shape and he’ll say he’s not he’s in the best shape of all three of us. He’ll go run for like hours and hours when we play basketball
Scott Scully 26:12
that’s different so not true
Jeff Winters 26:14
is different like the basketball the football like that stuff if you use muscles you don’t ordinarily basketball hurt. Yeah, but you know it doesn’t pickle I could go do pickleball not stretch go home do some other shit. Yeah, croquet
Eric Watkins 26:29
Yeah, car yeah, it’s
Jeff Winters 26:31
not Yeah, right horse stuff like that.
Scott Scully 26:34
I say do it.
Eric Watkins 26:36
I’m gonna say no, but put yes, no, but yes. And Jeff we know where you stand. Don’t show up to work with a pop
Jeff Winters 26:43
patella.
Scott Scully 26:46
All right, great show. Thank you grow nation, you continue to support what we’re doing here. Again, we just want to make it a little bit easier in your journey to 50 mil and beyond. Keep giving us your feedback. Keep interacting, like and post and subscribe and Sharon, all that good stuff. We hope you have a good week. He can grow and grind.
27:14
Let’s grow. Let’s grow let’s grow. The grow show was sponsored by abstract cloud solutions certified Salesforce consulting services.
Map meetings are an incredible tool that provide accountability, acknowledgement and direction to individual contributors and their supervisors.
At its core, the map meeting involves major projects, activity measured and potential business issues. Major projects refer to the top five tasks that are most important and have the highest impact on achieving success.
Once it is implemented, regularly scheduled MAP meetings can be incredibly effective in driving your business forward. Acknowledging and rewarding employees for their hard work, understanding their business goals, and staying aware of any potential roadblocks can all contribute to increased productivity and help your business reach its goals.
Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to the growth show. Hello, grown Nation. I’m here with my partners, Eric Watkins and Jeff winters. And we’ve got another incredible episode of totally usable Business Growth tips. But before we get into those, we’re heading over the sheriff. See what’s going on. And LinkedIn. There’s a
Jeff Winters 00:24
lot. I mean, LinkedIn is, it’s poppin. It’s poppin. I don’t I don’t have any data to support this, which has never stopped me before. I think it’s got to be more popular than ever. Are there li or maybe they’re just doing a better job of just feeding me? I do. I don’t have Instagram or Tiktok. But LinkedIn is like captivates my attention for hours.
Eric Watkins 00:47
That’s crazy. Yeah, it’s a black hole.
Jeff Winters 00:49
It’s a black hole. But there’s some stuff on there. That’s really good. And some stuff on there. That’s not. And we’re here to share both. So our first two truths. One of those two comes from Brian L sesor. Brian writes potentially unpopular opinion sellers, you should measure your sales prowess in your ability to open and close new outbound opportunities. It’s great to have the luxury to sell inbound, however, the truest skill in our profession, is the ability to close deals with brands that didn’t reach out to you for help. First, I think this is a capital T truth. And I also think it’s just important for companies to know there’s a big difference selling inbound and outbound. Those are different worlds and which it this has implications on which leads you give to which reps it has implications on as you’re looking at your reps, which leads they have, how quality, how good at selling, are they I think this is a truth. I really liked this one.
Eric Watkins 01:51
I agree with this. And I think it’s a truth. But I have a follow up question. And maybe you all can answer it. Do you think, take your best outbound closing rep. Think it’s the hardest skill set to have you have it? You’re the best closer? Yes. Does that automatically make them the best inbound closer as well? Or is there a nuance to closing inbound deals? It’s different than
Scott Scully 02:13
Hulu. I have an opinion on that. I don’t know if it’s going to answer your question directly. But it just sparked this thing that I always worry about when inbound leads come in, or when a referral comes in, where they’re raising their hand and saying they want to do business with us. I feel like nine times out of 10 we don’t or salespeople don’t take them through the entire sales process through like short change, they because they’re already pretty much saying yes. Which means that we sell with whatever expectations they had in their head before they got to the call, which may not be realistic. I think what makes the best salesperson which for these kinds of leads, which is not always the best salesperson is the person that has the patience to slow him down and say no, I’m gonna take you through this entire process, I want to make sure that you see exactly what we do how we do it, you have a chance to ask questions. So that if we do become partners, you know, expectations are realistic, and we do a good job for you. So I guess what I’m saying is maybe not Yeah, they can understand this person’s gonna buy and so they do it even quicker. Sure, as opposed to making them go through the whole sales process. If that makes sense.
Jeff Winters 03:39
It does. On balance harder to sell inbound or outbound Scott up, for sure. Yeah.
Eric Watkins 03:45
Oh, gosh. Yeah, no question that Yeah.
Scott Scully 03:47
Or referrals. Put your I’m a green. Put your referrals aside your inbound leads aside? Yeah. If you’re really good at selling outbound.
Jeff Winters 03:56
And don’t confuse it. Like if you’ve never sold outbound, you’ve only sold inbound or
Eric Watkins 04:00
referrals. Don’t be saying you have a 60% close rate. Yeah,
Jeff Winters 04:03
you don’t. You’re 100% close rate and calm.
Scott Scully 04:05
And I’d add to it. Outbound someone else that Oh, as opposed to the outbound that you set sure where you were part of the initial conversation. You’re a true rock star if you can sell somebody else’s outbound. Oh,
Eric Watkins 04:22
that’s a big differentiate. Yeah,
Jeff Winters 04:24
that is a really good point. That’s the Jedi. You can sell referral. I think referrals easier now. We all agree. Sell referral really well. You could sell inbound. Really well. You could sell outbound that you set and then you can sell out on somebody else. Yeah. That’s good.
Eric Watkins 04:41
Going back to the post. If if you are going to ask us our best sales rep internally. Yeah, I would look at highest close right on outbound leads that someone else said, yeah, and that’d be the person I go send up to represent us to close the deal. Yeah,
04:54
in Cleveland. Included Scott always uses Cleveland.
Eric Watkins 04:57
Cleveland rocks.
Jeff Winters 05:00
Nik Mehta, CEO of Gainsight, just my point of view, but I think companies put too much of the blame for execution issues on individual contributors and not enough on leaders, great leaders make individual contributors 10 times better, we need 10x. Leaders, I need to get 10x better myself, for sure. Also, quote to those who much is given much as expected. I love this. It’s so easy for leaders to look to levels down and go the individual contributors, the individual contributors, the account manager, the salesperson, no, no, no. And, Eric, I know we talked about this all the time. No bad teams, only bad leaders, if you had that exact same. And Scott, you say this, if you had that exact same team of individual contributors and a different leader, would that team be more successful? And the answer is often Yes. And we blame individual contributors all the time, they’re the ones that go on to performance plans, they’re the ones that end up having to leave the organization due to performance issues, and not enough pressure is put on leaders as this was a big stamp of truth for me
Scott Scully 06:02
love it. I agree. Yeah, truth and that best leaders going to try to put the best people in seats, because then the job is easier to do even easier to be a better leader, when you take the time upfront to make sure that you hired the right people in the onset
Eric Watkins 06:17
truth, truth.
Jeff Winters 06:19
And now we come to a lie. And I wanted to pull this lie, because it’s not just a lie, but it’s a lie that has 2000 Plus reactions on LinkedIn. So this is a lie that a lot of people are reading and reacting to. And these are the most important, and it says, I don’t believe in cold calling. It doesn’t work, and is a massive waste of time and energy. Instead, I believe in warm calling, this approach has led to prospecting, to meeting conversion of 10 to 20%, over the course of my sales career, as opposed to one to 3% when cold calling, here’s how it works. And then this person goes on to describe a process where you send an email, and then you make a call. And then you use the CRM, there’s like a it’s a it’s a sequence of events. And I think this is a a nasty lie. For two reasons. First, cold calling is not a massive waste of time. That’s silly. We all agree on that. But second, to lead people to believe that if they go through this process, for every 100 People they contact, they’re gonna get 20 meetings,
Eric Watkins 07:28
not a shot, that part’s a lie. Nor is it scalable, no. So even if one, this guy’s a magician, and he can do it, like, I would love to know the offering, he did it with anyone who is targeting, but cold calling is not dead. Sure, I would take warm calls all day over cold calls. But unfortunately, to do it at scale to hit your entire Tam, you’re going to have to make some cold calls, and they’re not can get the return on investment from it. Or we wouldn’t be running a business doing it show
Jeff Winters 07:59
me the 20% Like that’s bullshit across the board, there is no 20% Like, don’t, don’t tell, even if he did that, get that telling people to expect that somebody goes into a boardroom or an executive. And they go, I’ve got data to support the idea that we’re going to close 20% all the leads, we get only needs 200 We’re gonna close 40 new customers, let’s build our entire plan around that.
Scott Scully 08:19
You know, the funny thing is even the people that build the data that we buy, you know, there’s all kinds of two tools where they can scrape email signature contact info and cleanse lists against each other. But guess what they have to ultimately do to fill in the blanks with their data, get all get on the phone on the phone. It’s just the fastest way to get somebody on the phone to ask questions to clarify and determine whether or not you want to run a process going forward. Now, once you have determined that there’s a decision maker that is qualified, that you should definitely contact go forward, hitting that person in multiple ways connecting on LinkedIn, sending an email, making phone calls, of course, of course. But stop with the fourth piece of software and the third data manipulation tool and eight part email series to hopefully land on the perfect list to call just pick up the damn phone and call and ask a couple of questions and get there
Jeff Winters 09:24
quicker. 20% is You’re a liar.
50 for 50
Scott Scully 09:27
I think we’re qualified to say he’s a liar. Since we do this for a living that that one in particular. I guess we wouldn’t set hundreds of 1000s of appointments over the years if we were waiting on his process. All right, we are now at the 50 for 50. These are the 50 tips, the 50 strategies to things that if we were to start another business we would put in place immediately to ensure success. We’ve tried a lot of things and not everything’s worked but in In this section, we talk about the things that do work that we would put money on. And this one’s another doozy. It’s the map meeting, this is a meeting, it depends on what you’re doing and whether or not it’s a weekly or once a month. But here, we do it weekly. In the map, the map meeting is act that actually stands for major projects, activity measured, and potential business issues, potential obstacles in the way of success. I got consulting in the past, from a wonderful woman who, you know, we were just going through all of these different business practices, and she was given me tips on you know, how to build teams and become more productive. And this is one of those things that I pulled away from her. And we really worked a lot on it that I was just amazed with, and it’s, at the end of the day, if you’re doing this effectively, there’s no need to get to the end of the year, and rely on a year end review. This tool allows for somebody to understand how they’re doing week by week, in this meeting, it is the individual contributors meeting, not the managers. So this isn’t me, the manager saying do this, do this do this, this is me, the individual contributor, showing up to an hour meeting with my supervisor showing them that I’ve got it handled in the major projects, these are the top five things that that I need to accomplish within the next week. In that section, we also talk about last week’s top five, and you know, my results towards those top five, these top five things need to be the highest level most important things, the dominoes, if you will, that cause the rest of the dominoes to fall, a lot of us build to do lists, you guys know it rebuild a to do list, and maybe you start knocking off the easiest things so that you feel like you’re accomplishing something. No, this is the five things that have to happen that can’t get carried over to the next week that will impact the rest of the items on your list. Here we wrap these five things into our top five processes within each position. And then we put them on a schedule or what we call a playbook, which was one of our sense more sensitive posts out on LinkedIn. But these top five processes matter. And so basically, you’re like, How was last week? How are your results with those top five processes. Here are my recommendations for what I should do in these five categories for the next week. Manager, individual contributor agree get on the same page, what an unbelievable opportunity for an individual contributor to say I got it. And by the way, look at how I understand my business or my position, because I’m coming to the meeting with the things that matter most. And what an unbelievable opportunity for the manager to see that they are on the right page or not. And if they’re not to make some adjustments right there with them, most of the time, when you are doing this on a regular basis, it’s really more of an opportunity to acknowledge somebody for the important work they did the week for and for really highlighting the things that are the most important to accomplish this week. In the middle, it’s activity. We’re on Salesforce. So we’ve got different dashboards for every position in the building. That’s where you’re looking at those dashboards and you’re monitoring the top level activity for that week could be dials, it could be pitches, it could be implementations, it could be products produced, it could be phones, answered whatever it may be, but that’s where they’re presenting their activity versus goals. And then potential business issues is where somebody is talking about things that may get in the way. So if I’m a sales manager, I may say, you know, here’s what’s going on with the business. We’re on track for the year, but we do have this high performing rep that I think is looking at some other opportunities. And so that could be a potential interrupter. And here’s what I’m doing to make sure that that that does not interrupt our business, but that’s a super important spot as well. So we have it weekly. Every manager has it with an individual contributor. The individual contributor is responsible for the meeting, not the manager. It is a huge accountability piece. It’s a huge acknowledgement piece. And this is one of our top five for sure. It took a couple of years to get everybody in the building doing it now. We’re really working on the quality of those meetings, but this is a huge, huge part of driving our revenue north. What do you guys think?
Eric Watkins 14:59
If you’re a C or president or running a business right now you shouldn’t walk, you should run and go implement this right away, right away. Because if you’re in that position, being in that position myself, you’re always asking yourself a couple of questions. One is, is everybody working? Right? I’m paying, you know, you got X amount of people on payroll is everybody putting in the effort that they should every single week. And I think a lot of us feel good about our companies and our cultures where we don’t have to ask ourselves that much. Then the second thing is, well, what are they working on. And don’t underestimate the power of having your entire company in sort of these guardrails working towards the same mission or vision, you would be surprised how out of whack, at least in my scope, being over different departments how all of a sudden, I see people just flying in different directions, working on totally different things, where if they were collaborating or knew or were working in the same direction, they could be leveraging what one another is doing. So what I love about this is by defining those projects in each position, you can ensure that people were not telling them exactly what to do, they got to solve problems and come up with what they need to do. But they’re moving in one direction, and everything is aligned. And it’s just an intentional way to run your business that couldn’t imagine running this business without it.
Jeff Winters 16:16
Yeah, Scott focused a lot on the manager, individual contributor map. But to be abundantly clear, everybody doesn’t map I do a map with Scott, my VPS, do a map with me everybody in the organization. There’s two, there’s two parts of this, I really want to underscore. The first is it’s a forcing function. For everybody to meet with their manager every week, everybody meets with their manager every week. And Scott bought our business a year and a half ago, I remember there were scenarios prior to us coming on board where we had managers that didn’t meet with individual contributors for weeks, and that you just can’t have that, like hard stop every manager me with every, every contributor or every direct report every week. And the next is it’s a it’s an absolute. It mandates execution, like if execution in a business is checking boxes of things that need to be done. This inherently ensures that the business is executing every week, everybody, five things? I did it, yes, I did this, I did this, I did this great. That is the essence of execution. It’s a great framework for a one on one, you should use it, you should not question it, you should use it, I think we’re going to have some cool materials that we can share on LinkedIn soon on this with us,
Scott Scully 17:35
you know what happens? It’s hard. Because someone says, especially somebody with a lot of responsibility, I can’t narrow it down to five things. That’s the hardest part. But you can. And the other thing is, it might be a piece, like one of the things may be a piece of a larger thing that you’re moving along, right? Like you may have a project that can’t be done in a week, but a piece of that project can and that’s what you’re calling them. But it is so hard for people to drill down to the the five items that are the dominoes that cause everything else to fall over. But once they learn how to do this, oh my gosh, they’re so much more productive. And you know, we we’ve had to every new hire here at abstract a book called The one thing which really does a really good job of talking to you about picking the most important things in your life, personal, professional, spiritual, that book ties right into this, you know, build a success list, not a to do list. And that’s what this map is all about. And like Eric said, Do it, do it quickly, you’ll notice the results
Eric Watkins 18:53
been one thing that you’ll see over time, is you know, they talk about it with investing a lot compound interest. So this is really what you’re doing. If you get 1% better every day, you’re actually 37 times better by the end of the year. And this is one of the impacts that we see from these maps, is we’re focused, we’re being intentional every single week, it focuses me to at least sit down and think okay, when it comes to my role, what do I need to do to improve my results? I have to critically think about it. And then I get held accountable to going and doing that each week.
Mining for Growth Gold
Scott Scully 09:27
I think we’re qualified to say he’s a liar. Since we do this for a living that that one in particular. I guess we wouldn’t set hundreds of 1000s of appointments over the years if we were waiting on his process. All right, we are now at the 50 for 50. These are the 50 tips, the 50 strategies to things that if we were to start another business we would put in place immediately to ensure success. We’ve tried a lot of things and not everything’s worked but in In this section, we talk about the things that do work that we would put money on. And this one’s another doozy. It’s the map meeting, this is a meeting, it depends on what you’re doing and whether or not it’s a weekly or once a month. But here, we do it weekly. In the map, the map meeting is act that actually stands for major projects, activity measured, and potential business issues, potential obstacles in the way of success. I got consulting in the past, from a wonderful woman who, you know, we were just going through all of these different business practices, and she was given me tips on you know, how to build teams and become more productive. And this is one of those things that I pulled away from her. And we really worked a lot on it that I was just amazed with, and it’s, at the end of the day, if you’re doing this effectively, there’s no need to get to the end of the year, and rely on a year end review. This tool allows for somebody to understand how they’re doing week by week, in this meeting, it is the individual contributors meeting, not the managers. So this isn’t me, the manager saying do this, do this do this, this is me, the individual contributor, showing up to an hour meeting with my supervisor showing them that I’ve got it handled in the major projects, these are the top five things that that I need to accomplish within the next week. In that section, we also talk about last week’s top five, and you know, my results towards those top five, these top five things need to be the highest level most important things, the dominoes, if you will, that cause the rest of the dominoes to fall, a lot of us build to do lists, you guys know it rebuild a to do list, and maybe you start knocking off the easiest things so that you feel like you’re accomplishing something. No, this is the five things that have to happen that can’t get carried over to the next week that will impact the rest of the items on your list. Here we wrap these five things into our top five processes within each position. And then we put them on a schedule or what we call a playbook, which was one of our sense more sensitive posts out on LinkedIn. But these top five processes matter. And so basically, you’re like, How was last week? How are your results with those top five processes. Here are my recommendations for what I should do in these five categories for the next week. Manager, individual contributor agree get on the same page, what an unbelievable opportunity for an individual contributor to say I got it. And by the way, look at how I understand my business or my position, because I’m coming to the meeting with the things that matter most. And what an unbelievable opportunity for the manager to see that they are on the right page or not. And if they’re not to make some adjustments right there with them, most of the time, when you are doing this on a regular basis, it’s really more of an opportunity to acknowledge somebody for the important work they did the week for and for really highlighting the things that are the most important to accomplish this week. In the middle, it’s activity. We’re on Salesforce. So we’ve got different dashboards for every position in the building. That’s where you’re looking at those dashboards and you’re monitoring the top level activity for that week could be dials, it could be pitches, it could be implementations, it could be products produced, it could be phones, answered whatever it may be, but that’s where they’re presenting their activity versus goals. And then potential business issues is where somebody is talking about things that may get in the way. So if I’m a sales manager, I may say, you know, here’s what’s going on with the business. We’re on track for the year, but we do have this high performing rep that I think is looking at some other opportunities. And so that could be a potential interrupter. And here’s what I’m doing to make sure that that that does not interrupt our business, but that’s a super important spot as well. So we have it weekly. Every manager has it with an individual contributor. The individual contributor is responsible for the meeting, not the manager. It is a huge accountability piece. It’s a huge acknowledgement piece. And this is one of our top five for sure. It took a couple of years to get everybody in the building doing it now. We’re really working on the quality of those meetings, but this is a huge, huge part of driving our revenue north. What do you guys think?
Eric Watkins 14:59
If you’re a C or president or running a business right now you shouldn’t walk, you should run and go implement this right away, right away. Because if you’re in that position, being in that position myself, you’re always asking yourself a couple of questions. One is, is everybody working? Right? I’m paying, you know, you got X amount of people on payroll is everybody putting in the effort that they should every single week. And I think a lot of us feel good about our companies and our cultures where we don’t have to ask ourselves that much. Then the second thing is, well, what are they working on. And don’t underestimate the power of having your entire company in sort of these guardrails working towards the same mission or vision, you would be surprised how out of whack, at least in my scope, being over different departments how all of a sudden, I see people just flying in different directions, working on totally different things, where if they were collaborating or knew or were working in the same direction, they could be leveraging what one another is doing. So what I love about this is by defining those projects in each position, you can ensure that people were not telling them exactly what to do, they got to solve problems and come up with what they need to do. But they’re moving in one direction, and everything is aligned. And it’s just an intentional way to run your business that couldn’t imagine running this business without it.
Jeff Winters 16:16
Yeah, Scott focused a lot on the manager, individual contributor map. But to be abundantly clear, everybody doesn’t map I do a map with Scott, my VPS, do a map with me everybody in the organization. There’s two, there’s two parts of this, I really want to underscore. The first is it’s a forcing function. For everybody to meet with their manager every week, everybody meets with their manager every week. And Scott bought our business a year and a half ago, I remember there were scenarios prior to us coming on board where we had managers that didn’t meet with individual contributors for weeks, and that you just can’t have that, like hard stop every manager me with every, every contributor or every direct report every week. And the next is it’s a it’s an absolute. It mandates execution, like if execution in a business is checking boxes of things that need to be done. This inherently ensures that the business is executing every week, everybody, five things? I did it, yes, I did this, I did this, I did this great. That is the essence of execution. It’s a great framework for a one on one, you should use it, you should not question it, you should use it, I think we’re going to have some cool materials that we can share on LinkedIn soon on this with us,
Scott Scully 17:35
you know what happens? It’s hard. Because someone says, especially somebody with a lot of responsibility, I can’t narrow it down to five things. That’s the hardest part. But you can. And the other thing is, it might be a piece, like one of the things may be a piece of a larger thing that you’re moving along, right? Like you may have a project that can’t be done in a week, but a piece of that project can and that’s what you’re calling them. But it is so hard for people to drill down to the the five items that are the dominoes that cause everything else to fall over. But once they learn how to do this, oh my gosh, they’re so much more productive. And you know, we we’ve had to every new hire here at abstract a book called The one thing which really does a really good job of talking to you about picking the most important things in your life, personal, professional, spiritual, that book ties right into this, you know, build a success list, not a to do list. And that’s what this map is all about. And like Eric said, Do it, do it quickly, you’ll notice the results
Eric Watkins 18:53
been one thing that you’ll see over time, is you know, they talk about it with investing a lot compound interest. So this is really what you’re doing. If you get 1% better every day, you’re actually 37 times better by the end of the year. And this is one of the impacts that we see from these maps, is we’re focused, we’re being intentional every single week, it focuses me to at least sit down and think okay, when it comes to my role, what do I need to do to improve my results? I have to critically think about it. And then I get held accountable to going and doing that each week.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 24:44
Jeff, you know, now we’re sitting on a pile of leads, how do we sell more of them? Yeah, talk to us from sales.
Jeff Winters 25:22
Talk about not pitching the decision maker that that leads right into what we’re talking about today, which is tales from sales. For us, we’re selling approximately $6 million in annual revenue every single month, we’ve got a lot of meetings, somewhere on the order of 1200 sales pitches every month for our team, we’ve got a lot of data on what’s working, what’s not, it’s real time. It’s, and we’re bringing it to you to try to help. So one thing we’re seeing more today, by a lot than we saw five years ago, is our salespeople, and all salespeople are not pitching the final decision maker. They’re just not. And there’s two reasons for that. The first is, more often than not, the final decision maker is not a person, it’s a group of people now, decisions are being made by committee at alarmingly high rates relative to 234 years ago. And also, the CFO in current times is just far more involved in decisions than they’ve been in other times. And so these are two real things. And so we as salespeople, and sales leaders need to adjust because you’re not going to talk to the decision maker all the time. And that’s okay. You’re talking to an influencer? And so what I want to talk about is, what do you do to ensure that your influencer becomes your champion? Because those are different things. An influencer is someone who can influence the decision in a decision making process to buy something one way or the other. I want this, I don’t want this, or I really don’t want this. Lastly, I really do want this. And that’s what you need to find out. You need to find out as a salesperson on your sales calls, am I talking to somebody who’s going to take this to the final decision maker, or the decision making committee or the CFO and say, Hey, I was evaluating the solution, here’s what it is, or are they going to go we have to have this, it is a must have, it’s not a nice to have, this is not vitamins, this is antibiotics, we got to have it, you need to know that. Because in the absence of knowing that, you don’t have any idea whether or not your deal is gonna close, you have no clue. And so I want to give just a really quick, simple way to do this. And we could go way, depth way into a lot of depth on this. But but one thing you’d say is, can you talk to me a little bit about the decision making process of how things get decided, when you buy stuff like this internally? Well, you know, you know, Eric, typically, I have to talk to Bob and and Steve and, and you know, then we figure out if we’re gonna buy it or not. No, I totally get it. Just out of curiosity. If this was totally up to you, I know Bob and Steve are in the picture. And look, I got a boss too. I get it. But if this were totally your decision in your decision alone, would you do it? And if they say yes, you go, why? Tell me? Like why? And then they verbalize it. And they’re places you can go from there. And then I’ll give you a couple ideas of what to do. If they say no, because they’re gonna if they say no, you’re gonna say why. And then they might say one of a couple of things. They might say, No, you say why, and they go price. It’s too expensive. And here’s the question. How do you mean, that’s such a great question. When somebody says something is too expensive, say, how do you mean, gives you a chance to gather yourself? And it’s
Eric Watkins 28:53
like, you’ll listen, there’s no good way to answer.
Jeff Winters 28:54
There’s no good way to answer that question. Or, if I go, Hey, you know, if this was your decision, your decision alone, would you do it? I don’t know. Oh, why? You know, I’m just I’m not totally there yet. What would you change? What would you change is a really interesting question. And I want to give some love to Jake Shadowman, one of our salespeople who did this in a roleplay off this week, what would you change is a really interesting way to get somebody to bring out an objection to take them from potentially an influencer to a champion. So step one here, make sure you’re moving people from influencer to champion by asking them if it was a unilateral decision, how would they do it? And those are just some few tips on what did what to say when they have those responses?
Scott Scully 29:36
What percentage with the adjustment being closed rate you think if someone would do this?
Jeff Winters 29:42
I think the close rate would go up. But more importantly, I think the forecast accuracy would go up by like 500%. Would people just guessing?
Scott Scully 29:48
I think that’s the biggest deal. But actually knowing who’s going to buy and who isn’t getting an accurate for Cas, which are the VPs of sales out there. That’s music to their ears. For sure.
Eric Watkins 30:00
And going back to last episode, this is what we’re talking about when you get a referral or you get an inbound lead typically, it’s probably someone further along in the decision making process when you get an outbound lead. You have to be good at this stuff. Yeah, like is the Jedi stuff?
Jeff Winters 30:16
How do you mean?
Eric Watkins 30:17
How do you mean? Sorry, it’s what the one thing I would I was thinking about when you said Would you would you move forward? I like would you move forward today? Oh, putting a little bit of urgency on it. Like would you sign this contract right now? No, I wouldn’t because I think that’s different than what I move forward ever. Just a little bit of urgency there.
Scott Scully 30:43
Phrasing. Is there a book out there with the 100 greatest phrases sales questioning teasing there
Eric Watkins 30:52
might be might be saying you know, as well as I do that book should be out there
Jeff Winters 30:56
brochure tales from see what you write it now. Copyright.
Scott Scully 31:01
I love it. It comes down to the phrasing
Eric Watkins 31:04
great tales from sales. Yeah, good job, Jeff.
To Do or Not To Do
Jeff Winters 31:07
Now you’re gonna wash down that delicious tales from sales meal with
Eric Watkins 31:13
word this is a I have a bear
Scott Scully 31:14
right. I think Eric sad because we should be building up this last section.
Eric Watkins 31:20
I have a proclamation to make today. I can’t I have an executive
Scott Scully 31:24
order that we need to be more excited isn’t over
Eric Watkins 31:27
yet. That as well. That is well. Are we ready? Do I get my intro or no?
Scott Scully 31:33
Now headed. We’re now had to do everybody’s favorite to do or not to do Okay, the question,
Eric Watkins 31:42
you guys are gonna mark your calendars. Mark your calendars. You’re gonna remember this date for the rest of your lives. It’s official ties are done. You no longer need to wear a tie to anything. Not anything. A necktie a neck tie. Correct. Cars are done. Oh, this is good. If you go to a black tie event, you got to wear a tie. Outside of that. You never have to wear a tie ever.
Jeff Winters 32:11
So ties are not done.
Eric Watkins 32:12
They’re done other than datapad. Bow Ties or weddings. No tie. Funerals. No tie. graduations.
Scott Scully 32:21
What if you’re on the wedding party?
Eric Watkins 32:23
Wedding Party? Up to the bride and groom up to the bride?
Jeff Winters 32:26
Who are you talking about?
Eric Watkins 32:27
Yeah, up to the bride. But no, you don’t need to wear ties anymore. I think ties are done. I think it’s just time we stopped like playing this game. Like should I wear a tie? Should I not? They’re done. I have more than a time five years COVID ended
Jeff Winters 32:39
ties?
Eric Watkins 32:40
I think they did. I think it did. And by the way, what if you are terrible? itchy?
Jeff Winters 32:45
What do you think
Scott Scully 32:47
I hate ties. I’ve got a closet full of really nice ties. The rare occasion that I have to put them on anymore. Like Eric said, it’s just miserable. It’s not comfortable. Just kill. But I do think a really nice shirt and a nice suit to a formal event. Without a tie can look nice. You could still have like a pocket.
Eric Watkins 33:15
Spring the pocket squares. Let’s put those over ties. let’s prioritize. Let’s do it. Let’s do it.
Jeff Winters 33:22
I don’t You’re a tie guy. No, I don’t look good. Like, because that’s what are we going to see shirt and tie. Right? shirt no tie this suit no tie. I don’t have that kind of neck.
33:34
What I just
Jeff Winters 33:37
say like, like it doesn’t look that look doesn’t work. So like a tie works for me at formal events. I don’t like it. But I’m saying like, there are people out there who are going to know what I’m talking about. What are you? I’m just saying like from a shape.
Eric Watkins 33:49
But if that’s the case, you’re next a little thick. Right?
Jeff Winters 33:53
Well you said that. Well thick neck.
Scott Scully 33:56
Yeah, but when you Yeah, we don’t shoot together with a tie isn’t part of your
Eric Watkins 34:00
neck fat hanging over? Well, we’ll put a picture up on LinkedIn. We’ll have a vote. We’ll have a vote Do you like tie Jeff or no tie Jeff better? Oh, what do you think?
34:11
No tie Jeff.
Jeff Winters 34:12
Here’s the other thing now. Don’t go overboard casual at wedding. No,
Eric Watkins 34:16
no, no, no, no. This is clear. This is not dressed like a slob
34:21
that’s not what I’m saying. Wear a suit. Yeah, suit Nice shirt.
Eric Watkins 34:25
Nice button up nice shoes. Nice Bell pockets with throughout the pocket square. Haven’t
Jeff Winters 34:29
you been to a wedding or a funeral Lately though? And you’re like, come on. Come on in.
Eric Watkins 34:33
Yeah, but they didn’t. They weren’t a sweater.
Jeff Winters 34:35
You can’t wear a sweater.
Scott Scully 34:37
If people wear sweaters and jeans. Yes, that’s
Eric Watkins 34:40
outrageous. That’s outrageous. But the ties are dead. We’ve declared it. It’s done. The depth of the tie. You didn’t know how important this day was going to be in history. Now you do.
Scott Scully 34:52
Gentleman incredible show again. More fire for the grown nation.
Eric Watkins 34:57
Jeff brought it today.
Scott Scully 34:58
I got it was On Fire and Flager blushing, good job, grow nation. We are loving your support, please pass the word along. We’re just trying to make it a little bit easier for entrepreneurs and business owners out there to take things to the next level. We’ve got some exciting downloads that are going to be coming out things that you can go grab to make our tips just a little bit easier to understand. So look for that please like subscribe, review. We need you. We need you to get the word out again great show guys and as always, let’s grow let’s grow let’s
35:39
grow and grow show is sponsored by inbound SDR digital search that works
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Two Truths and a Lie from LinkedIn
Scott Scully 00:00
Welcome back to The Grove show. I’m with my partners in crime, Eric Watkins and Jeff winters. Hello, gentlemen.
Eric Watkins 00:07
Good day to you. Good day to you Good day to you
Jeff Winters 00:11
honestly feels like we never left. I feel like I have been here this whole time. That’s how comfortable I feel like you’re living
Scott Scully 00:17
in the studio. Yeah. First of all, by the way, if you’re just joining us, what is the gross show? The gross show is tactical advice,
Eric Watkins 00:25
not theory things
Scott Scully 00:27
thinks that. Yeah, no theory, no textbooks. This is all Convo about things that we’ve actually implemented, we are using and it is working, whether we’re doing it or whether our close vendors or people in, in business relationships are using these tactics. These are inaction they’re working. And they are causing consistent year over year growth. And we wanted to put a show together to make it just a little easier for people out there in their journey. Because we just know how tough it is. I wish I would have had this 28 years ago,
Eric Watkins 01:03
I wish I would have had what I talked about today, six months ago. Yeah. Like we’re, we’re, we’re if we learn it, and we’re doing it, we’re bringing it out here. If
Scott Scully 01:15
you’re not growing, you’re dying. So I just want to make a couple of shout outs before we get into or swing it over to our LinkedIn sheriff. I wanted to shout out our customers, we have a growing number of customers that are interacting with us on the growth show, I know that you’re out there listening, and this is on behalf of all of us, we appreciate you. We would not exist abstract would not exist if you were not so loyal, and kind. And we appreciate you. And we just want to be part of your journey and help you in growth. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening, spread the word to our team members 550. And growing, we wanted to put this together for you. So that we could make it just a little bit easier to understand why it is that we do what we do. And we felt that if we were working through some of these really important topics through a podcast, it’d be an easy way to talk to you. And we could help in your growth and you becoming even better consultants for our partners and even more impactful in, in your jobs and in your lives. Hope this causes growth for you, for our prospects, if we have interacted with you at some point, and we’re not currently doing business. This is part of us staying in touch with you. And we hope we build confidence in the things that we’re doing over time. And whenever you’re ready, we’re ready for that powerful partnership. And if we don’t have any business affiliation with you, whatsoever, that’s fine. That’s why we wanted to do this. We wanted to make sure that we put good content out into the world, we just want it to be a smooth ride towards growth. It is not
Eric Watkins 03:11
smooth it out as much as policies are the
Scott Scully 03:14
shocks, if you will through business growth.
03:17
What about the people that are just here for the laughs?
Scott Scully 03:20
There are two of those. And thank we welcome
03:23
all of you with open arms.
Scott Scully 03:25
Yes. All right. So one of your favorite sections, you loyal listeners, keep calling out your favorite section. Jeff, the sheriff work in the Lincoln LinkedIn pastures. What do we have this week?
Jeff Winters 03:42
They do talk about it? They do. I’m getting the people and I said this a few episodes ago, we’re getting the people who are the truth tellers. They like that I always do when the LinkedIn post about the show, we say hey, these are some truths in that I think. I think it’s not a blue checkmark of credibility. But I certainly think you’re getting close. It adds a little credibility to the people where I, you know, talk about the truth. I don’t know. No data to support that, but certainly something I think is true. Speaking of today, Bob Marsh, he’s a CRO keynote speaker on sales and leadership and founder. And now he can add to that truth teller, because he says Bob says probably my number one tip for any manager or leader of people always be recruiting. If you have an open position and this is key, or even if you don’t make sure you’re always building a talent pipeline. This is really good. I think it is so easy to not have that bullpen of people to come in when you need them. You don’t know what somebody’s gonna resign. You don’t know what something’s gonna happen like, you just don’t know as a leader, your number one job. Have the best players You can’t do that if everything is just in time recruiting.
Scott Scully 05:04
I find it amazing that so many people are fascinated with professional sports. Um, you’ve got your diehard fans that have completely converted half of their house to get up on a Sunday. And live NFL football. They know the league, and they know that there are scouts out there, combing us trying to find the best talent to put in every position. Like people know this, they live by this. But then we don’t do it in business. How does that happen? Like, we know that professional sports teams, you are elite, if you’ve joined an NFL team, an NBA team, an NHL team, and you’re also not safe. Just because you’ve made the team doesn’t mean you’re always going to play that position. Right? Why does that not happen in business? I love this post couldn’t agree more. You need the best players in all of your positions all the time. And you always have to be looking and people should continue to improve or not hold that position.
Eric Watkins 06:12
Yeah, I feel like this is 100% truth. And I think the root of why we don’t do it as leaders is because we’re so focused on the day to day and we’re not stepping out. So some sort of regular cadence of how are you going to evaluate the characteristics of your team? And what are you comparing them against? And what’s the litmus test? And the, you know, the bar raiser mentality that Amazon uses every new person we’re going to put into a position? Are they raising the bar? Or are they just adequate? In the role? I think this is great. And I think it’s often overlooked. the busier you are, the worse you are at this.
Jeff Winters 06:49
Yeah, and a lot of this is networking. It sounds simple. But we had a situation just yesterday, where we had an opening. And we were able to go through the internal Rolodex and call someone and get them hired that day. I mean, that’s, that’s what you need as a business. That’s what you should set yourself up for. So this is really good sage advice. Others other search advice, a universal truth. From Len Lisowski. Len says, I lost the deal based upon price. Unless you sell a commodity, no, you didn’t lose based on price, you didn’t show them value, you didn’t align with the business goal or strategic imperative. You didn’t have true executive sponsorship, you didn’t sell broadly enough across the organization, you didn’t prove how your solution could solve the client’s business problems I could go on. But you did not lose based on price price is the easiest reason a client can provide. But rarely, the true reason you lost. Price is the easiest reason a client can provide by why they didn’t go with you. And they don’t want to tell you why. But in today’s world, where people are so in tune with the difference between a low quality or high quality solution, how that can impact their business. You’re not losing deals based on price. You’re just not. You’re losing deals for a variety of other reasons. And you shouldn’t as a sales leader, except this excuse truth.
Eric Watkins 08:17
Yeah, cheers. I agree with that. It’s the easiest excuse for a sales rep to use. It’s the easiest excuse because you can’t argue with it. Oh, is price. Right? But you know, the and I think that’s why a lot of people lean on that. But you’re right, there’s so much everybody would buy something. If you know the circuit like no one’s pricing their products so far out of the realm of affordability.
Scott Scully 08:39
You know how in sales processes, there’s ways to log reasons to lose deals, contract price, doing business with a competitor, not the right size? And maybe this should be a call out to take price off the list? Yes. That’s a good idea. If people say it, yeah, all sales managers when somebody says price say no. Go find the other reasons. Yeah, good idea.
Eric Watkins 09:03
And don’t let a prospect tell you price. Yeah, will hurt my feelings. It’s not price. Yeah, it’s not price.
Scott Scully 09:10
There’s a deeper part to this too, because so many people discount because they think that somebody’s just gonna make the decision based on 250 or $500 a month less. And if they built another enough value, they wouldn’t have had to come off the price point period.
Jeff Winters 09:27
Now you may have sparked a different debate. But let us move on to the other side of this coin a darker side of the coin. I wonder if I’m gonna get universal agreement on this slide. We don’t need universal agreement on the show folks. I’m not a yes man. Happy to have the discussion. But this is a lie that I think is a lie. unpopular opinion. Leaders should not pursue friendships with the team they lead. Before you get upset with me hear me out. Leaders are responsible to build relationships with the people they lead. They are responsible to foster unity within those teams, but building friendships with the team creates confusion and unhealthy power dynamics. I think that’s bullshit. I don’t think that’s right. I am friends with many people that I lead. And I’m also friends. I think Scott, with my boss, they’re not unhealthy, we’re good. Like, then I think I’ll use our like, I know, like, I know what it is, I know what it’s not like, if I’m not doing a good job at work, you’ll even say, alright, on a personal level, you won’t come over, like, but like, I’m still doing a shitty job at work. So you don’t hold back. You can, the way you do it is can be tricky. But that’s ridiculous. You can be friends with people, that’s outrageous.
Scott Scully 10:48
I feel like, it’s pretty hard to avoid, when you’re in the trenches with people all day, every day, and you really enjoy those people and respect them. You can’t help but to establish some friendships, I think where there’d be some truth in this is, you know, a couple layers. Underneath where, you know, if you are a manager, and you’re all out on a Friday night, and you know, you’re in a situation where maybe there’s a lot of drinking, and there’s some things that start to go on that maybe you didn’t want to see. And now all of a sudden you have to do something about it. I think there are situations with certain people on your team that it just makes. It could make it awkward if you put yourself in certain environments or situations with with people at work.
Eric Watkins 11:55
Sure. I think it’s a lie at face value. I think a leaders intent should not be to become their team members, friends, first, you should start with the mission vision of the team. And then inevitably, if you can do both great do both, but don’t let one get in the way of the other. That would be my response.
Jeff Winters 12:15
People say they don’t gotta like you. They just gotta respect you. You know what, fuck it helps if they like you, though. Like, it really does. It helps if they don’t dislike you, but I understand your point.
Eric Watkins 12:26
Yeah, but no, you’re 100%. Right. Everything comes at a cost. Yeah,
Jeff Winters 12:31
it helps that I like Scott, you don’t like I’ll do what he says anyway, because he’s my boss. But like, I also like him and trust him like those are important things,
Eric Watkins 12:37
right? Well, any what’s super important, I feel like, ultimately, is feedback. And if you don’t have that relationship, a lot of times people withhold information. And they don’t give you that feedback. And if you don’t have all the information on the table, you can’t make the best decisions.
Scott Scully 12:53
If you’re going to, if you’re going to do this, like I could see why this post was made. And by the way, we’re for everybody out there, we’re partners, right? So we’re friends, but we also own shares in a business together. So that might be different than a couple levels underneath where maybe somebody’s running a sales team. And all of a sudden, they’re really good friends with two out of 10 sales on the sales team. And then one of those people happens to get promoted, maybe even because they’re the person that should be promoted. But everybody knows that. You’re you have good friendships with those two people. Now favoritism comes into play. Or you’re the sales manager, yep. 10 people and want to your salespeople does something frickin stupid on a Saturday night and you see it, you got to do something about it. And then you feel you feel like you don’t want to do something about it. Maybe nobody knows. And this is my friend, it can get pretty tricky if you’re not ready, willing and able to separate business and personal. And I’m more worried about what people see. Like if you’re friends with some and not friends with other others, and you’re a leader that can really sure lead off that you’re favoring some and not equal to others. That’s a difficult one.
Jeff Winters 14:23
It’s a hard one. But life is so long, and you work at a company five years, 10 years. I’m not going to sacrifice my potential friendships with people just because they work for me. You know, I’m not down for that. Yeah, it’s bullshit. But it’s also clear that you know, Scott and I are best friends. And that’s what I took away from that. And she took away from that. I don’t know if other people hurt. I have got
Eric Watkins 14:45
you’re a better friend than an employee for sure. Definitely. give you that. I
Scott Scully 14:50
mean, I don’t have I don’t have Jeff up on my frigerator
Eric Watkins 14:53
I’m out there though. Right.
Jeff Winters 14:54
You did my Christmas card. You did? Yeah, you did. What’s up All
50 for 50
Scott Scully 15:02
All right, we’re heading into the 5450. Again, just as a recap, the 50 for 50 is the 50 things that we would put in place no matter what if we were going to start a business from scratch, we would put these 50 things into place, there the law, they’re our golden rules. These things have all been used, time tested. I don’t care who you are, what kind of business you’re in, we think that you should take these things into consideration. And, you know, put them into play. So I love today’s and when I say it, you’re gonna say well, duh, or that’s, that’s not new. But I’m gonna say it anyway. Build your advisory team, talking about banker, lawyer, accountant, insurer, insurance person, I’m going to go with just those four for now. Now, I would tell you, there’s a very important fifth one in there. That’s your outsourced sales pipeline provider. Abstract marketing. Number five, baby are two snuck in a little.
Eric Watkins 16:26
Number five, maybe number one can’t sell if you don’t mark, it depends who you ask.
Scott Scully 16:31
And I know that there’s more people that are fitting into this category as technology advances, I know outsourced IT partners are certainly start to get on this list and, and, you know, Employee Benefit benefits providers, you just have to have the right Advisory Team. Today, I’m going to focus on bankers, lawyers, accountants, and insurance people. And all of your sand Scott, I’ve heard this before. Well, you’ve also heard don’t eat brownies every day, and you still do it. Like, it’s like, if you can tell me that you think that you have a world class, banker, lawyer, accountant, and insurance person that know your business inside and out, have been with you for at least three years, and are proactively helping you steer the business forward? Then don’t listen to the rest of this. If you’re like the 95% that don’t, please do listen. Take these things into consideration. First of all, what are your goals? You know, am I going to need capital? Am I going to operate in multiple states? Are my employees remote? Or, you know what, what are? What are you shooting for that is going to that is going to make a difference when selecting the appropriate partners. Network in your industry. You know, if you’re in the construction industry, network in your peer groups, because there are lawyers or bankers or trusted advisors that understand your industry that would be better to use. So ask your buddies do not save money on this. Do not say, Well, this accountant can do it for less, do not say, Well, I just saw that lawyer on the park bench and called them and he can do it for half the price. Don’t do it. You need the best advisors period. If you’re going to grow year over year and have just a predictably healthy business, do this. Now. Think Forward at least three years. Think about who you want to be who you are becoming and make sure that you have the right relationships early. Maybe someone just starts a business. And they can’t go out and get the top law firm in town or a top accounting firm in town like I get that. But as soon as possible, as soon as you can afford the very best move to the very best. And when I say look forward three years, I’d get a little uncomfortable. I’d saved money elsewhere, so that you can have these people in place, thinking about where you’re growing and helping you get there. You do not want to find these people. When you have the problem. You don’t you have a problem with a contract. And all of a sudden someone’s suing you. You don’t go to a lawyer with a contract that they didn’t write and get the same representation. You need to go make these relationships right now so that they understand your business so they can effectively back you up if things happen.
Eric Watkins 19:47
Why do you think people do this? You think it’s just saving money up front?
Scott Scully 19:52
I think that there aren’t as many problems when you first started so they’re like, Hey, I gotta check in business. checking accounts, I’ve got my accountant I play golf with, you know, they’re gonna do my taxes, things are pretty simple, I’m fine. But what they’re not, you remember in the episode when we said go set up your accountability network, like they’re not considering these people as really part of their board or their executive team. They’re not considering that, if these people really understand me where I’m going in my business, they could like, they could help me with relationships, they could proactively help steer me towards success, like, let me use, like some of the exact examples like a bank, right, the bank is going to have different financial products for you. And when you first start, you may need like I said, the business checking account or, as they go forward, you may need capital to build a building, you may need, you know, a loan to buy a business or invest in equipment. And it’s not very often that you can walk in blind to a bank and ask for a couple million bucks. My dad was in this business, it was amazing, all the stories that he would have of people to just walk right off the street and say, Alright, I have this business problem. Now I need your help, right. But if you are with a bank early, as your deposits go up, you’re more of an attractive customer. If they have, if you have loans with them, they want your business to go well, so you can pay the loans back. But the more you deposit, the more that they can lend. That’s the name of the game from a banking perspective. And talk about a network like this, this banker wants you to do well. And they also have relationships with other business owners around town, a lot of them and vet so they’re going to help you with vendors, they’re going to help you with new clients. They’re going to push your business as much as they can so that you can pay the loans back or so that you have more deposits so that they can learn more. A bank, a good bank will make you better because they’re better if you’re better. And accountant, tax advice, payroll advice, just making sure that you’re fiscally fiscally responsible, you know, pointing forward, you know, you guys know, Kyle, we got Kyle involved. Another entrepreneur, but happens to be a CPA, brilliant financial mind, we got him involved at the very beginning. Because we wanted to make sure when it mattered, we were being responsible. Right, we put the right amount of money away, we budgeted we just we planned ahead, we we thought about financial decisions in the right way. And I truly believe that’s one of the biggest reasons why we’re here today. And we happen to be going now in the last couple of years to a new accounting firm, because we need big ticket advice, not only as an organization, but as individuals as well. So we’re making that move probably before we need to, but thinking about becoming $100 million. Organization, we need $100 million. Plus, we need a $500 million accountant. Legal, couldn’t be more important contracts, policies, intellectual property, whatever it may be, I mentioned it earlier. If they write your contract, they can defend your contract. If they’re part of your employee policies, they can defend your employee policies. And, you know, from an insurance perspective, this is a big one, if you have the right insurance, you can protect your business going forward. That’s, that’s the name of the game. If you don’t have insurance, or you have the wrong insurance policy, you could be out of business. And I just think that it is so important to make this team right now. One of your most important action items, you got to evaluate who you’re using, you need to go out and do this right now thinking about who you want to be three years down the road. I will end this little section with my story. I’ve told it before, but it’s a story of being saved by my advisors, and a vendor. And that was in the business prior to this. When things were going south in the auto industry. We had a lot of business with Chrysler and some larger dealerships and things were going down fast Chrysler extended people out so we did not get paid a couple million dollars for like six months. And then we had a couple of big dealer groups that were in the same situation. So we had several million dollars out. We had a million dollar line of credit at the bank. fool tapped. And somehow we got a million dollars on American Express cards. I’m not sure how we did that. They weren’t sure how we did that when they called us. But fact the matter is, in the same week, American Express called, we want our money, and the bank called, we want our money. And two things happened. And in the two weeks following that, one went and sat down with the bank. And because we had a relationship with with them, not only did they extend it, they gave us a little bit more couldn’t believe it, from calling, from calling it to extending the amount of time that we had to give them some money and, and actually extending the alignment line of credit, was a difference maker. And then we had a really good vendor relationship, where we owed them money and took a little trip down to Florida and offered them 20% of our business and for x. And he said, Well laughed and said, How’d you come up with x? And I said, because it’s exactly what we owe you. And you have margin in it. So it’s not really that amount. And he wrote us a check that week. And business was saved. But it was because of partnerships, not not only a good vendor, partnership, but because of having the right banking relationships. So do this, you’re going to need it and do it now. Way, way way, go set up a line of credit right now, while you don’t need it. I didn’t listen to people. And for some reason, one day I did, and thank God, thank God, I’ve had long lasting, the longest lasting relationship we have is with our bank, they’ve been through three companies with us. And they’ve been a big part of our success. I know this dissection was longer than the normal, but I think it’s really important advice. And advice. This one I wouldn’t wait on,
Jeff Winters 27:04
I had a very similar banking story during COVID, our line of credit was 500,000. And I called the bank and we you know, and people said, Go get a line of credit when things are good. And bankers want to talk, they’re not paid by the hour, like bankers go out to lunch, they’ll talk to you, they’ll hang out with you that like bankers are great free advisors. And I called them and I said, we need that line of credit to 1,000,005. And they go, you’re gonna pull the whole thing down, meaning we’re gonna take the whole line of credit and show in our bank account. Probably knowing full well, the answer was absolutely. And they said, okay, and they did it that day, that day, it can happen, but it doesn’t happen. If I go, Hi, my name is Jeff, I run a business, it’s nice to meet you. I need 1,000,005 like in an hour. That’s not how it works. It’s similar thing. And then again, when you think about being really small, you don’t have that many people to turn to that know the business that are vested in the business. Yeah, people that don’t, you don’t pay by the hour you can talk to and they will talk to you. And I’ll give you a couple others just as bonuses, your real estate broker, your real estate broker knows the business can introduce you to people vested not paid by the hour. You know, for me, I had, I had my doctor because I’m a hypochondriac, I needed that and then also I professors. And now Scott, you’re right, this is a huge thing, set up this network to give you trends give you a business give you relationships help you out when you need it.
Eric Watkins 28:26
I just wanted to give context on that not starting my own business, just being on the outside of it, and hearing you go through this, this would be something if I were to start my business tomorrow, if I didn’t hear this, I wouldn’t think about at all. Like this would not be something that is just great advice. I’d be thinking about the problem I’m solving and how to take it to market and how to hire the best people. And then all of a sudden, you’ve run into an opportunity where you need a little bit more money than you have. And well, there goes my business because I didn’t have the relationship in advance. And by
Jeff Winters 28:55
the way, everybody has, how many business owners you talked to that don’t have I almost didn’t make payroll story.
Scott Scully 29:00
And I think that everybody that’s listening probably has a relationship and each one of these categories. But what’s the relationship look like? And, and more importantly, how, how well do they understand your business? How often do you get together with them? Do they understand exactly where you want to grow? And what part are they playing in that? Not just, I’m a bank and thanks for the deposits. Like I’m a bank, I’m part of your growth. I know where you’re heading. I know the money that you need to do that. I’m invested in helping you find other customers and important vendors to make your business successful. Put these people at a table once a quarter, share your ideas, share your financials and get four or five more people to help put their heads together to make you successful. All right. I beat that to death. But it’s important
Mining for Growth Gold
We are now going to head over to mining, for growth, gold
Eric Watkins 30:05
mining for growth gold. So you got your business setup for growth, you have your sales team that Jeff’s gonna get to and how to close the deals. But the missing link is how do you get more leads into your business, you’ve been growing organically through referrals through word of mouth, you’ve maybe tried a couple of things here and there, we’re going through our business, what we do for ourselves what we do for our partners, what is the best way to drive leads for your business? Today, we’re going to talk about email deliverability. So email has got to be a core function of any lead generation strategy, you got to have email, the cost to do it relative to everything else, the amount of messages you can get out the reach you can have, it just absolutely has to be a part of your strategy. So when I talked a couple episodes ago, about a talked about the sense in sending out one email or the throttles and how you send out these emails. And we look at we try to do at least three minutes in between each email because the goal here is you want to look human, it is so important, the name of the game is getting eyes on your emails, that is the hardest thing here, the hardest thing, you can write good content, you can have the targeting. But first, in this day and age, you just have to get eyes on emails. So the most effective way to do this is to actually look at reply rate. So the common misconception here is let’s just look at bounce rate, because those will tell me all of my emails that just didn’t get delivered. But now, that’s just table stakes. Making it past the bounce rate is just table stakes. And from there, you have to beat the ever changing technology of the spam filters that are on every single inbox, in addition to Outlook and Gmail constantly changing these settings. So you have to beat the spam. And then in addition, you may get all the way through the spam into the inbox, and then you show up as an unverified sender. And I don’t know about you, but I’m never clicking on somebody who sent an email to me and they’re an unverified sender. The question that a lot of people have is well, okay, if I’m not looking at, if I’m not looking at bounce rate, then I should look at open rate and open rates. Great, and you should absolutely look at it. But unfortunately, in this day and age, a lot of these spam detection technologies, actually open the emails. So it gives you this false sense of security of Oh, I’m getting all these emails open up? Well, no, you’re really not. Because you really need to look at reply rate. And does reply rate have a lot to do with the content targeting? Absolutely. But looking at the reply rate will give you the best indicator, if you’re actually getting eyes on your emails. So that’s the name of the game. We want to increase our eyes on the emails, how do we do this diversification? Diversification is the word here. So we will use we will you it’s not going to be a perfect science, you’re always finagling, this you have to think about the whole system is working against you, they don’t want a person to be able to send out 1000s of emails over the course of a month. So they’re constantly trying to keep us out of inboxes. So here’s what would do, let’s say you go you’re going after a tam total addressable market of about 30,000 prospects, what we would recommend is using two separate platforms. So for example, in this case, we’ll use Outlook. And then we’ll use Gmail. Underneath each platform, we are going to set up for total domains, so two domains for each platform. And then at those domains, we’re going to be setting up to senders per domain. So overall, we’re going to have four domains. And we’re gonna have eight total senders, and it’s going to be across two platforms. So why two platforms? Outlook. So for example, back in November, we had an event where our email deliverability fell off a cliff in just one day. And then it slowly came back over time. But that’s not just one company that were emailing, changing their settings that was a mass move from Outlook or Gmail, whichever, whichever one company would be the case in this scenario, because they are they have this dial switch behind the scenes. No, they don’t say they do. But they do. Like everybody knows that they’re doing things to decrease the likelihood of you getting these emails through. So if you are, if you have all your email set up on one platform, and they move that dial, you’re screwed, you’re not getting any emails out. So being able to be diversified across email platforms is huge. And then from there, having the four different domains gives you the flexibility to not only evaluate the performance between them, but also know also able to leverage if one domains working better than the other. Or if one domains get one domain gets shut down. You can transition your sense over to the other ones and not mess up your flow of emails and keep your consistency going out. So overall, as a lot of nerdiness around email marketing. But if you’re just using one platform, you’re setting up one domain, and you’re blasting out 1000s of emails, you’re not getting email, you’re not getting eyes on your email. So you have to set this up. And you have to diversify up front, because it’s a complex environment. And it gives you the ability to pivot as we go through this.
Jeff Winters 35:20
If you’re doing email prospecting, if you’re an SDR, you need to rewind this, you need to listen to that at three quarter speed. Because in two years, this is what everyone’s going to be doing. Because we were doing two years ago, what everyone’s doing now, with the domain, and inbox setup diversification. This is the next evolution of that, get ahead of the game, do what Eric is saying. And by the way, Gmail, Outlook Zoho mail, he’s even suggested AOL, AOL, I would love to know your screen name from back in the day. I bet I bet I know what it was. football player, cool guy. 1212 12. Do it. Do it. Do it,
Scott Scully 36:00
do it. Two things. First of all, the whole time you were talking, Jeff was looking over at you like a proud dad, like, look, look who’s become the email expert over there. He’s saying it better than you know, everybody listening, I think is used to hearing how Google is constantly changing their algorithms to make it even more difficult to raise keyword rank. And so that’s why so many people use an out sourced provider to write content and work on local SEO and make adjustments to websites. And, you know, because it’s just all the time the business rules change. And if you’re not on top of them, then your your rank is going to decrease. I bet most people that are out there don’t realize it’s the same thing with email marketing. I bet they buy a tool by a list, send email, it bombs, and they said doesn’t work. Yeah. And what they don’t realize is it’s just frickin hard. And if it wasn’t, there wouldn’t be the big email companies that actually use other companies to help their customers set set up, set their tools up the right way. Right,
Eric Watkins 37:13
exactly. And you could even argue it’s harder, because Google will at least publish the update that they did. These aren’t This is behind the scenes, they’re trying to keep you out. And you have to have smart people that can look at situations and try to find the roots of problems and put these solutions together. So take our word for it, we’ve done it, we’ve made the mistakes. Like I said, I wish I would have known this six months ago. This is new, this is fresh off the presses. But diversification up front and domains in send and senders and in diversification up front, and not only platforms, but also domains. And also senders is critical.
Tales from Sales
Scott Scully 37:56
How’s good stuffer. So Eric now has sent beautiful emails that actually land causing an amazing amount of leads. That sales team is now sitting on top of what are you going to suggest to do to just make it a little easier to sell over here and Tales from sales. Today, it’s
Jeff Winters 38:17
a suggestion of what not to do, what not to do what not to do. I’ve heard this more often than I’d like over the last couple of months, and I want to bring it to our loyal listeners. As salespeople, it is hard enough to sell. Selling is hard selling today may even be a skirt harder than it’s ever been. Don’t make it harder. And the advice that I would give is don’t create problems on the sales call that don’t exist. Don’t create problems that don’t exist. And I’ll give you why this happens. First, let me define it. salesperson is on a call. And the prospect asks a question. And the salesperson answers that question and then goes on a long diatribe. Not answering the question, but just continuing to talk. And whatever it is, they say, creates a problem now that the prospect wants to talk about. So let’s go back to the bank example. Let’s say I’m a banker. Eric says Jeff, the banker, tell me what’s my interest rate on a loan? You go? Well, Eric, you know, it’s interesting, yes, the interest rate on the loan is, you know, five or 6%. And I also wanted to tell you that we have a lot of people who are in danger of potentially not paying back their loans, and it’s putting the bank in kind of a weird financial position. We’re a little nervous about it. So obviously, but to answer your question is 6% What now
Eric Watkins 39:47
what why are they
Jeff Winters 39:49
paying their loans? And does that mean that my deposit like this is the kind of stuff you want to avoid? And we laugh at that silly example. But it’s happening all the time. With your salespeople in less flagrant and obvious examples. So here’s what you need to do, sometimes, as a salesperson just answer the question, like there’s no price for giving a long answer. Hey, Jeff, you guys secure sales meetings for your prospects, right? Yes, we do. That’s just the fucking answer. Just let it be. What’s the interest rate? 6%? And secondly, even when you’re giving a longer answer, just end it. And like, and make sure before you do you clarify, Eric, just so I can understand exactly what you’re asking. You just want to know the interest rate of the loan. Right? That’s all you’re looking for. Yes. Boom. So what you want to avoid here is giving a the wrong answer because you don’t know the questions really being asked, or be over talking. Because you run yourself into a problem. Don’t create problems that don’t exist.
Scott Scully 40:51
I love this. And it’s really simple advice, but hard. Like I trained hundreds of salespeople early on, and this was my biggest pet peeve. Like, everyone does it, especially when they’re getting into sales. They just keep talking. For whatever reason they think like a short answers, not being a good salesperson. Like just answer the question, move on, answer the question, move on. And I took a lot of training. This is if you have new salespeople, this is going to be one of your biggest hurdles to jump over. Because for whatever reason, as a rookie salesperson, this is one of the biggest mistakes people make.
Eric Watkins 41:37
I love this. And I would say the number one way to combat this if you’re a new sales rep, listen back to your calls. Go back, watch the tape, listen to your calls, and go through one call and say what are all the words I said that didn’t need to be set at all. And I bet the list is long, and you’ll just get a little bit better each time. Good tip. Good tip tales from sales. Were their were their baby.
To Do or Not To Do
Scott Scully 42:04
Everybody’s favorite. To do or not to do. Eric, the boys got some good ones. Yeah,
Eric Watkins 42:11
that’s a good one today. So So Jeff and I have been doing this 75 hard, which is just good for results. Terrible for your mind. It’s not not ideal. Not loving it. But you know, we’ve gone through it and Scott’s kind of joined in, halfway through. Doing this little 35 Easy 35 Easy. Yeah. But long story short, we’ve been on this diet and these exercise routines, you can look it up 75 hard if you want to do it, and I’ve been dreaming about fast food. Like I’m having dreams about burgers and fries and tacos. I can’t wait for that 76 day, you know, I’m gonna I don’t know what I’m gonna eat, but it’s gonna be a lot. It’s gonna be a lot of things. My question for today is and I’m talking fast food. I’m not talking Chipotle. I’m not talking Macalester I’m talking heart attack in a bag. Fast food. You can only eat at one place for the rest of your life. When you go to fast food. Do you pick McDonald’s? Or do you pick Taco Bell? We’re not doing like the where you get to eat every day forever. But you can only if you are going to eat fast food you you got one option?
Scott Scully 43:26
Oh, I thought you meant I had to eat there every single day for the rest
Eric Watkins 43:30
that documentary that did where the guy like died. But McDonald’s McDonald’s.
Jeff Winters 43:35
First of all that the the two cheeseburger meal is my appetizer. I mean, that’s a joke.
Scott Scully 43:42
You ate two Big Macs.
Jeff Winters 43:44
I don’t mind McDonald’s order. Two double cheeseburgers no pick a large fry 20 Nuggets and a make chicken. Oh fuck nothing to it. My wife knows not to just rip it right off. By the way. What do you start with one tooth with the tooth? You start with a cheeseburger?
Scott Scully 44:00
I know what you don’t order it you’re out. Start with I know. I know. I know what you don’t order it the
Jeff Winters 44:06
fries down immediately rip through the fries just like they weren’t even there.
Eric Watkins 44:09
The fries should not make it home. He doesn’t it shouldn’t make it home. No,
Scott Scully 44:12
he doesn’t order a shake because their machine doesn’t.
Jeff Winters 44:15
Yeah, wait two hours from machine and then Taco Bell. Also easy three cheesy gordita crunches and three hard tacos
Scott Scully 44:22
are can eat a lot. I’d go with like six Doritos. Locos Tacos.
Eric Watkins 44:28
Yes, a pre yes Doritos. locos. See,
Jeff Winters 44:31
like a happy meal. Come on, man. You gotta eat.
Eric Watkins 44:35
Well, it sounds like you’re a big fan of both. So if you had to pick
Jeff Winters 44:39
I’m gonna talk about Taco Bell. Yeah, the cheesy gordita crunch is the single best fast food item in the history of mankind.
Scott Scully 44:45
For those of you that are in a market that has a taco Johnson there are not many of you. Shout out to the potato lace top. guys haven’t eaten it at a Mexican fast food restaurant said I was There’s one in Iowa
Eric Watkins 45:01
today of loose meat tacos. Yeah.
Scott Scully 45:06
By the way, yes. In Iowa they had the smoky bar and the loose meat sandwiches.
Jeff Winters 45:10
I bet they did. Yeah, talk about the treat. That’s a treat. I get burgers wherever, like you can’t get a cheesy gordita crunch anywhere but talk about one on one.
Eric Watkins 45:17
I love to lupus. I’d love to lupus, but not as much as I love a Big Mac. A big mac a MC chicken a double cheeseburger. Unlike Jeff, I don’t get them all at the same time. I’ll mix it up. In some. You gotta get the large fry and you got to eat the fries that didn’t that made it to the bottom of the bag first. And then you go to the ones that are that are sitting in the container.
Scott Scully 45:43
Big Mac flip. Donald’s 100 French fries, Coke six shakes. What?
Eric Watkins 45:48
McDonald’s all DAC and
Scott Scully 45:50
apple pie. What was it? I
45:51
don’t think you got any of those items. Right?
Eric Watkins 45:53
You’re hungry now.
Scott Scully 45:55
This was a good this was a good episode. And now you’re hungry. So tell us where you went. Get you you get back to us. Tell us what your McDonald’s order was or your or your Taco Bell order was we’d love to hear
Jeff Winters 46:08
you think can I say I tried to go knock down my order. Like go see if that yeah, the FDA warning. What do I I don’t want anybody to like keel over. If
Eric Watkins 46:17
you can’t, if you cannot eat that whole thing out. Please.
Scott Scully 46:22
Get in one of our social posts. Let’s include this whole the poll. I’d like to know what people pay
Eric Watkins 46:29
McDonald’s or Taco Bell.
Scott Scully 46:31
And what would you order? keep chatting with us keep subscribing, sharing, spreading the word interacting. We love you. We’re here because of you. As always, let’s grow
Eric Watkins 46:46
let’s grow let’s grow. It brochure show is sponsored by inbound SDR digital search that works
